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Jesus is God?
- Thread starter Khale
- Start date
There were, or are, some documents that showed a group called the way, a sect that preached holiness and they were killed. Their time in history was very short lived.
These could have been of the true church and I would say, yes they were. This is based on my knowledge of what is possible.
The modern Christian Church is a corruption and has been developed after the true Church was pushed out of sight.
Yes this person is and so am I. I happen to believe also that God and Jesus are separate entities.
Matthew 16:13-17
Now when he had come into the parts of Caesare′a Philip′pi, Jesus went asking his disciples: Who are men saying the Son of man is? They said: Some say John the Baptist, others Eli′jah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets. He said to them: YOU, though, who do YOU say I am? In answer Simon Peter said: You are the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 In response Jesus said to him: Happy you are, Simon son of Jo′nah, because flesh and blood did not reveal [it] to you, but my Father who is in the heavens did.
This tells us straight away that Jesus is the "SON"of the "LIVING"God. Not his equal or part of a Godhead or such like thing. This is but one of many scritures that back this up
He is praying for all them to become a God? I dont think so. Remember the serpent told Eve she could be like God in the garden of Eden by eating the fruit. What happened to her? She was classed as having sinned. We are all human and are not meant for that.
So therefore maybe they are the true meaning of the text because they are attributes of the Holy Spirit.
No you dont. You have to read the bible to get a full example of God and thus see who He is. Jesus being His son was His perfect reflection. Jesus reflects His father Jehovah, after having spent millenium with him in the past, just as a child will reflect their father/mothers attributes collectivly after spending just 18 years with them.
Its in 2 peter 3:8.
You really need to read the prophecies in the bible before trying to contradict. If you dont know what the prophecies pertain to about the Kingdom of God and such, then you will not understand the fact that this time (2,520 years) had to go by before Christ was installed as King and then the last days start which build into the Great Tribulation which builds to Armageddon.
Yes but not many. The apostacy had set in by this stage and the true christians were very hard to find.
Yet the gospels speak ofactualy people an\d places and things that existed in that time yet you believe them to be fiction? or myth?
What has made you come to this conclusion?
The gospels even point to events that will happen in our day!
Yes the Modern Church is corruption. I do agree. Yet the bible speaks of a group that will be out preaching "this good news of the kingdom ..... in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come." So there is a true fellowship of believers out there PReaching the Good News of Gods Kingdom
Originally Posted by AllanV
The modern Christian Church is a corruption and has been developed after the true Church was pushed out of sight.
The good news of the kingdom is escaping Satan's kingdom entirely. The sacrifice of Jesus was to disarm the principalities and powers in the heavenly places and lead captivity captive.
This will bring individuals to Perfection and true Holiness with out which no one will see The Lord at His coming.
The modern Christian Church is a corruption and has been developed after the true Church was pushed out of sight.
The good news of the kingdom is escaping Satan's kingdom entirely. The sacrifice of Jesus was to disarm the principalities and powers in the heavenly places and lead captivity captive.
This will bring individuals to Perfection and true Holiness with out which no one will see The Lord at His coming.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Why does God have a concept of time of days?
And... why is it considerably shorter than Brahma's day, 4.32 billion years?
Why does God have a concept of time of days?
And... why is it considerably shorter than Brahma's day, 4.32 billion years?
We tell time by earth's rotation, and earth is God's creation.
Psalm 90v2 mentions God being from everlasting to everlasting meaning that God had no beginning. For each day we can count we can add on another day. -endless counting.
In Genesis there is noting to indicate just how long each 'creative day ' is.
There is nothing to indicated even if each day was of the same length.
There is noting in Genesis that is out of harmony with CMBR dating.
[cosmic microwave background radiation]
Explaining about time or time frames helps show fulfillment of Bible prophecy.
Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep [in death] all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.
-2 Peter 3v4
Verse 3 says that scoffers will say the ^above^ words in these last days.
These last days of badness on earth [2Tim 3vs1-5,13] before Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.
In Ezekiel chapter 8 because God's own people took up false 'sun' worship in the temple God used the nation of Babylon to put them in captivity for 70 years. So, God used the political/military world [Babylon's army ] to act as his long arm of the law.
The United Nations today sees a hauntingly dangerous religious climate brewing in the world today. With backing the UN can be strengthened to be the modern-day political/military arm of the law that God will use against the world's religious sector that has run afoul playing false to God and his Word.
The religious world thinks she is some sort of religious 'queen' [Rev 18vs7,8]
that will never see mourning or sorrow. So it will come as quite a surprise when the world rulers 'kings' [Rev 17v2,17] turn on her.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Scripture and the Holy spirit say that there is one person and you declare that they are two. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out who is right.
You have two problems. First you can not prove from this scripture that there are two persons and second you can't negate the scripture that says they are one by another scripture that doesn't even say that they are two. However there is a perception of two which God perpetrates for His own purposes.
However the fact is that Eve did eat of the apple. Was the serpent telling the truth (He is an inveterate liar). Did Eve become like God? No, what I am talking about is not becoming like God but becoming God, not in the sense of my ego or ID replacing Him but His person replacing me. There is no doubt in my mind that it is exactly what God intended and does. So on here you hear my voice and my phrasing but the one speking is God.
A man say he saw an elephant. Another person comes along and says, no you only saw feet. Feet are an attribute of an elephant but they are also attributes of other animals as well. It detracts from the text and the concept that it is declaring to enunciate a lesser attribute as the meaning.
Jesus did not spend millenia with God, He was born in 0 CE. The Spirit of God in Jesus was there millenia.
Muffled
Jesus in me
This concept is false. Christians called themselves "the Way" until some Jews in Antioch called them Christians. It is the same church with a more public name.
Yes, according to Acts [20vs29,30] false shepherds [clergy disguised in sheep's clothing] would fleece the flock of God.
Genuine 'wheat' Christians would gown together over the centuries with fake 'weed/tares' Christians until the harvest time of separation or the time of Matthew 25vs31,32.
Muffled
Jesus in me
That doesn't mean that there was an original church unbesmirched. The People of the Way spawned the Judaizers who would have robbed the people of their freedom in Christ.
What Scripture do you have in mind?
Jesus, according to Scripture, is the Son of God. -John 10v36
Jesus believes he is the beginning of the creation by God.- Rev 3v14 B.
Even decades after Jesus was resurrected by God to heaven Jesus still thinks at Rev [2v18] that he is still the Son of God, and at Rev [3v12] Jesus still believes he has a God over him.
Muffled
Jesus in me
God is not divided into parts. Men sometimes conceive of Him that way because of His omni-presence but He is one wherever He is.
If the Father is in Heaven and the Son on earth the God is in two places. That is ture but He is still one God and not divisible.
Mt 5:16 Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
De 6:4 Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Regardless of what some will tell you here.....the way to clear up this misconception is to read Revelation 4 and 5. The biblical Yeshua (Jesus, a.k.a The Lamb) and his god are totally separated.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I see nothing in these chapters that indicate that Jesus and God are toatlly separate. This comes out of your own imagination which Jesus says is incorrect.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Of course you don't. It would take Yeshua himself telling you to your face that he and his god are separate because no matter how many times you read his supposed words in your book that he isn't you'll continue to "believe" the opposite.
Here's what 4 and 5 show....
Rev. 4:3
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
It's very important to take note going forward as to who is sitting upon the throne.
4:4
And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Ok, so we've established there is a main character seated upon the throne and around the throne are seated 24 elders.
4:8
And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
So we now know who is on the throne. Your lord ("God the all mighty") is the one on the throne whom the creatures are referring to.
4:9
And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
So basically these creatures are praising their god.
4:10-11
The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created
So now the 24 elders get in on the praising and fall down at the throne of their god with the creatures. So far we have no mention of Yeshua. I know what you're thinking though....(well this is Jesus/God right here clear as day).....but not so fast.....
Rev 5:1
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals
So we've concluded that "God" is on the throne and now we find "God" in possession of a book that is sealed.
5:2
And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Now wait a minute. If "God" is the most holy and all mighty and already has possession of the book with the seals then why are the heavenly angels asking (who is worthy of opening the seals)? Shouldn't "God" be (powerful and worthy) to do so since they (his creation) had already said he was?
5:3
And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
Ok so now we have no man worthy of opening this book. Take note that the book is still in "Gods'" possession waiting on some one other than himself that's capable of taking on this responsibility.
5:4-5
And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
Oh goody.... John doesn't have to cry anymore because they have now found a man born from the line of Juda (root of David) to come forth and open the book. Who might this fellow be....?
5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb .......
Now anyone reading this would be safe to assume this is speaking about Yeshua who is commonly refereed to by Christians as ("The Lamb" or "The Lamb of God"). More importantly is throughout this ordeal, trying to find some one worthy of opening the book that is in possession of "God" who is SEATED upon the throne, we have some one STANDING who is worthy enough to open this book.
5:7
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Wait just one hot minute here......This man, ("The Lamb of God") steps forward from standing in the midst of the elders to take the book from his god who is seated upon the throne? So far I see no reason why we should consider God and "the lamb" as one entity. Your scripture depicts them as separate entities.
5:12
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
So now the heavenly creatures show their respects to the one ("the lamb") that has taken the book from their god saying he is now worthy to receive power, riches, wisdom, strength, glory and blessing. This can't be talking about "God" because this was already sung to "God" before the lamb entered the picture....so once again they must be showing their respects to a separate entity.....
Well, how do we know this? How can we tell that Yeshua ("The Lamb") and his god are viewed separately by your god's heavenly creation...? Well, by the next verse of course....
5:13
And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Ahh, so now they show respect to both entities....The god that is still seated upon the throne and "The Lamb" whom Christians constantly inform us is Yeshua (Jesus)......
As you can see no heavy interpretation is needed here and Revelation 4 and 5 make it clear that Yeshua (The Lamb) is not "God"....the one sitting on the throne. So NO...Yeshua is not "God"
Hardly. I have no bone in this kind of fight but it's obvious from the Greek and the English chapter 4 and 5 show Yeshua and his god to be completely separate....
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