Even before chapters 4 and 5, in chapter 2 the resurrected heavenly Jesus still thinks according to verse 18 that he is still the> Son of God.
In chapter 3 Jesus still thinks he has a God over him at verse 12.
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Jesus is God?
- Thread starter Khale
- Start date
Even before chapters 4 and 5, in chapter 2 the resurrected heavenly Jesus still thinks according to verse 18 that he is still the> Son of God.
In chapter 3 Jesus still thinks he has a God over him at verse 12.
Muffled
Jesus in me
That does not change the fact that He is God. It just shows that He can refer to Himself as the Son of God because people will know to whom He is referring.
Again the only God that God has is God. The idea of over Him is not in the passage, however it is not incorrect for God in the flesh to defer to the God who is everlasting. Jesus is temporal. At some point the body will no longer be relevant and God will dispose of it but the Spirit remains forever.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Jesus was never "The Son" but other people construed it that way and Jesus didn't belabor the point.
So the reason remains the same. Jesus refers to Himself as "The Son" becasue He knows that people will recognize the term as referring to Him.
You have to be more specific in your question because Jesus was referring to more than one person in that verse.
Muffled
Jesus in me
It matters not whether it is allegorical or not. Jesus uses terms that will be recognized as referring to Him. That is the purpose of the statement not a definition of what His sonship means.
For instance I could address a letter to my daughter and refer to myself as "The one who raised you and changed your diapers." That says something about the relationship and identifies me as the writer but it doesn't explain everything about me.
Muffled
Jesus in me
If there was any dissent, my guess is that the dissenters were not invited to attend. They found plenty to argue about anyway which doesn't say much for the spiritual unity of the early church.
Yes Jesus was referring to more than one person at Rev 3v12 because repeatedly the heavenly resurrected Jesus repeatedly says my God, my God, my God, my God. Two [2] separate persons.
'My' would be Jesus.
'God' would be the God of Jesus.
Psalm 89v26: He [Jesus] will cry unto me [God] saying You are my Father, my God, and the Rock of my [Jesus] salvation.
What is the answer to the last question at Proverbs 30v4 B ?___________
BRIMS7ON3
New Member
Didn't have time to read the whole thread..
..but if you remove Paul from Scripture, there is nothing that states that Jesus IS God. He is the Son, and while He was clearly raised to the Godhead He is a separate individual from the Father. Our God is a jealous God, and nowhere did He say He was going to step down in liu of another.
We are made in their image...and as such it stands to reason that there is a hierarchy in the Spiritual just as the physical. Again, Jesus was given the keys...given the power..etc....meaning that at one time He didn't not have these. He existed, and was there at the beginning...but that in no way implies that He is or was equal to the Father, and in fact He states that He is not.
The trinity was invented later by Tertullian, and everything else was perpetuated by Paul and the "church" in an effort to destroy Christianity from the inside out. And that he did, because as of now BILLIONS have believed the lie, rejected the Law, and entered the WIDE GATE that leads to destruction.
Let those who have ears..
..but if you remove Paul from Scripture, there is nothing that states that Jesus IS God. He is the Son, and while He was clearly raised to the Godhead He is a separate individual from the Father. Our God is a jealous God, and nowhere did He say He was going to step down in liu of another.
We are made in their image...and as such it stands to reason that there is a hierarchy in the Spiritual just as the physical. Again, Jesus was given the keys...given the power..etc....meaning that at one time He didn't not have these. He existed, and was there at the beginning...but that in no way implies that He is or was equal to the Father, and in fact He states that He is not.
The trinity was invented later by Tertullian, and everything else was perpetuated by Paul and the "church" in an effort to destroy Christianity from the inside out. And that he did, because as of now BILLIONS have believed the lie, rejected the Law, and entered the WIDE GATE that leads to destruction.
Let those who have ears..
If we trace mankind's religious family tree back to Nimrod in ancient Babylon we see the start of the trinity or triads of gods.
So, in Jesus day there were already pagan trinities or triads of gods worshiped.
Luke wrote [Acts 20vs29,30] that after the apostles were off the scene that wolf-like clergy dressed in sheep clothing would fleece the flock of God.
-2nd Thess 2vs2-8
This would happen as Jesus explains in the illustration of the genuine 'wheat' Christians growing together over the centuries with the fake 'weed/tares' Christians until the harvest time or time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32.
So, in Jesus day there were already pagan trinities or triads of gods worshiped.
Luke wrote [Acts 20vs29,30] that after the apostles were off the scene that wolf-like clergy dressed in sheep clothing would fleece the flock of God.
-2nd Thess 2vs2-8
This would happen as Jesus explains in the illustration of the genuine 'wheat' Christians growing together over the centuries with the fake 'weed/tares' Christians until the harvest time or time of separation of Matthew 25vs31,32.
outhouse
Atheistically
thats what the words say by unknown authors who wrote about him long after he was dead.
did you know in the vatican they did a study and who prays to who???
jesus was #6 on the list
before the NT were followers of judaism able to pray to their god????
Jesus never prayed to himself. Jesus only taught us to pray to his Father.
John was not an unknown author when he wrote John [14v6] that no one comes to the Father except through me [Jesus].
Luke was not an unknown author when he wrote Acts [4v12] agreeing with John that there is not another name under heaven....whereby we must be saved.
Syrian writer Tatian [110-180] about 170 CE completed his work meaning "Through the Four" [Diatessaron]. The ancient manuscripts of the Diatessaron discovered evidence that the 'four gospels' were well known and accepted by the 2nd century.
Sir Frederic Kenyon: the Diatessaron proved the four gospels held an undisputed preeminence over all other narratives of our Savior's life.
Muffled
Jesus in me
This is a fallacy. There is no proof that the "My" and the "God" are two diffeent persons. That is just your assumption. If I say "my elbow", the "my" is not a different person from "elbow."
Adding the name Jesus to the text doesn't make it so. The text is clearly about David. Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; With my holy oil have I anointed him:
My name is Glenn and my son's name is David. Names are just names. They represent something. God has many names.
Muffled
Jesus in me
All scripture is inspired by God.
Jesus says so many times. It looks like you need to read the thread.
I have never seen any valid proof of this from anyone.
Exactly which is another reminder that Jesus is God and not another. Joh 5:23 that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him.
This is not good reasoning. It is illogical to reason from the general to the specific. God never says that He is a heirarchy. He says that He is one.
God holds all the power. The fact that He is in the flesh does not alter that. He does not take a vacation while in the flesh, He is everywhere as well. Of course Jesus can call on power that is available to Him. Jesus as a fleshly person only exists from the time he was born to the time He expires. It is the Spirit of God within that has always existed. Jesus says "I and my Father are one."
The Trinity is in the books of the Bible which existed long before Tertullian. Paul wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes the church does also and certainly does pertaining to the Trinity. The church is not destroyed and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. Millions believe the truth. No true Christian has rejected the law and millions have not entered the gates of destruction.
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David is not God's 'firstborn' is he according to Psalm 89v27 ?
How many names does the tetragrammaton [YHWH] stand for ?
What did Jesus say in prayer at John 17 vs 6 and 26 but a singular name?
Muffled
Jesus in me
Yes, in the sense of being the first real king of Israel. Saul doesn't count because God was simply using him as an example of how bad a king could be when the people got one they wanted. It is the firstborn that inherits from the father and it is David who has inherited the kingship from God not because of physical relationship but because David had a heart for God.
I think you are confused. A name doesn't stand for a name.
As I recall the only name Jesus manifested was "I am."