Jesus is God?

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, in the sense of being the first real king of Israel. Saul doesn't count because God was simply using him as an example of how bad a king could be when the people got one they wanted. It is the firstborn that inherits from the father and it is David who has inherited the kingship from God not because of physical relationship but because David had a heart for God.
I think you are confused. A name doesn't stand for a name.
As I recall the only name Jesus manifested was "I am."

Huh? 'I am' is not a name? Hallowed be thy I am ?

What is the tetragrammaton?

 

[wackybasith]

All scripture is inspired by God.

Jesus says so many times. It looks like you need to read the thread.

I have never seen any valid proof of this from anyone.

Exactly which is another reminder that Jesus is God and not another. Joh 5:23 that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him.

This is not good reasoning. It is illogical to reason from the general to the specific. God never says that He is a heirarchy. He says that He is one.

God holds all the power. The fact that He is in the flesh does not alter that. He does not take a vacation while in the flesh, He is everywhere as well. Of course Jesus can call on power that is available to Him. Jesus as a fleshly person only exists from the time he was born to the time He expires. It is the Spirit of God within that has always existed. Jesus says "I and my Father are one."

The Trinity is in the books of the Bible which existed long before Tertullian. Paul wrote by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes the church does also and certainly does pertaining to the Trinity. The church is not destroyed and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. Millions believe the truth. No true Christian has rejected the law and millions have not entered the gates of destruction.

Can you please say which verse you are referring to for "I and my Father are one".

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Can you please say which verse you are referring to for "I and my Father are one".

Please notice: John 10v30.

Jesus also prays that his followers be one as he and his Father are one at John 17 vs11,21-23. Jesus was not praying they all be God but one in purpose, faith, unity, belief, agreement, etc.

 

[wackybasith]

John 10:30 refers to Jesus and the Father being one in PURPOSE so then why do so many christians refer to this as them being one GOD. Where in the bible does it say that Jesus and God are one?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

John 10:30 refers to Jesus and the Father being one in PURPOSE so then why do so many christians refer to this as them being one GOD.

Because they have no idea what they're talking about.

Where in the bible does it say that Jesus and God are one?

Nowhere in their bible does it portray Yeshua and "God" as one being....only (one in purpose)....

 

[Yanni]

Could it be that the Messiah came first to pay for the sin of the world, and will come again to rule and bring peace? There are over 300 prophecies concerning the Messiah in the Old Testament that were fulfilled in Jesus. How about Isaiah chapter 53, have you read that? There are 27 prophecies in the old testament concerning the events of the crucifixion alone. If you are at all interested, I could list some with the verses, let me know. Jesus was always explaining that he must first suffer in order to fulfill all the Old Testament prophecies, but they didn't get it because they were looking for the Glorious Messiah who would set up his Kingdom. Not until he was ressurected, did they understand. Anyway, just tell me if you need some verses that have the prophecies about him in the Old Testament, I know you believe in the Old Testament, right?

My friend, everything you just said is wrong (from our point of view) and I strongly recommend you to read this article; it will explain why Jews don't believe in Jesus or Christian doctrine. One point is that the Jewish Messiah is not supposed to die for the sins of humanity. Next, there are a minimum of six criteria for the true Messiah to fulfill, of which Jesus did not even fulfill the first; they are:
1) He needs to have the correct genealogy by being descended from King David and King Solomon, who were from the tribe of Judah (and since tribal affiliation follows the father, and Jesus supposedly didn't have a human father, he did not even fulfill the first of the authentic Messianic criteria).
2) He will be anointed King of Israel;
3) He will return the Jewish People to the Land of Israel;
4) He will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem;
5) He will bring peace to the world and end all war;
6) He will bring knowledge of the One True God to the entire world and unite the entire world in His service.

Now, many Christians respond with their "second coming" theory. However, there is a major problem with that because there is no scriptural basis in the Jewish Bible for a "second coming." In fast, scripture states that when a person dies, "on that day his plans all perish," (Psalm 146:4). The Messiah ben David is not supposed to die before fulfilling his mission. Plus, the Messiah couldn't have died for our sins, because the OT God NEVER allows human sacrifice (that's why we sacrificed animals instead of our bodies) and that same God said that He would never change His mind about His commandments, because He is not a man that He should relent, nor the son of man that He should lie.

In any case, please read the article, which also addresses Isaiah and all the other "supposed" prophecies. I welcome anyone to read this article; I'm sure it will clarify the Jewish position very well. Why Don't Jews Believe In Jesus?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

John 10:30 refers to Jesus and the Father being one in PURPOSE so then why do so many christians refer to this as them being one GOD. Where in the bible does it say that Jesus and God are one?

No where does the Bible say Jesus and God are one in the same person.

Why do so-called Christians believe Jesus is God is because of clergy, not Bible, teachings. [Acts 20vs29,30;2nd Thess 2vs2-8]

If we trace mankind's religious family tree back to its roots in ancient Babylon that is where the idea started of Jesus and God being one. As those ancient peoples migrated throughout the earth they took with them their pagan beliefs or ideas or concepts and spread it world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.

This has resulted in a religious syncretism or a fusion of differing systems of non-Christian belief mixed together with biblical teachings but can not be reconciled to 1st-century biblical Christianity.
As Jesus said many would come in his name but prove false.
-Matthew chapter 7

 

[DavidDavid]

Jesus is the incarnation of Parashurama who is 6th avatar of lord Vishnu the protector.

 

[Muffled]

Huh? 'I am' is not a name? Hallowed be thy I am ?

What is the tetragrammaton?

It is when God says it is.

Actually it should be Hallowed be "I am."

The name came from a very old time and did not proceed from God but from men:

Ge 4:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enosh. Then began men to call upon the name of Jehovah.

 

[Muffled]

Can you please say which verse you are referring to for "I and my Father are one".

John 10:30.

The repsonse of the Pharisees is also interesting:

John 10:33 The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

 

[Muffled]

Please notice: John 10v30.

Jesus also prays that his followers be one as he and his Father are one at John 17 vs11,21-23. Jesus was not praying they all be God but one in purpose, faith, unity, belief, agreement, etc.

You are adding words to the scripture that aren't there. Jesus says nothing about purpose, faith, belief, or agreement in this prayer.

 

[Muffled]

No where does the Bible say Jesus and God are one in the same person.

Why do so-called Christians believe Jesus is God is because of clergy, not Bible, teachings. [Acts 20vs29,30;2nd Thess 2vs2-8]

If we trace mankind's religious family tree back to its roots in ancient Babylon that is where the idea started of Jesus and God being one. As those ancient peoples migrated throughout the earth they took with them their pagan beliefs or ideas or concepts and spread it world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.

This has resulted in a religious syncretism or a fusion of differing systems of non-Christian belief mixed together with biblical teachings but can not be reconciled to 1st-century biblical Christianity.
As Jesus said many would come in his name but prove false.
-Matthew chapter 7

It says that Jesus and the Father are one. The only allowable interpretation is that they are one in every way including one person. If it were otherwise Jesus would have said I and my Father are one except in this way or only in this way. Or are you going to tell me that God wouldn't know enough to make the codicils?

Are you sayng tha tpast understandings are true simply becasue they are old? Will you then go back to selling indulgences because the old way is better?

i would like to see you support that one with proof.

I have come to that conclusion through the Bible understood with the help of the Paraclete not from teachers. How have you reached your understanding?

 

[Me Myself]

It says that Jesus and the Father are one. The only allowable interpretation is that they are one in every way including one person. If it were otherwise Jesus would have said I and my Father are one except in this way or only in this way. Or are you going to tell me that God wouldn't know enough to make the codicils?

Are you sayng tha tpast understandings are true simply becasue they are old? Will you then go back to selling indulgences because the old way is better?

i would like to see you support that one with proof.

I have come to that conclusion through the Bible understood with the help of the Paraclete not from teachers. How have you reached your understanding?

But he also says that when there is a hungry or sick or homeless person at your door and you feed him, take care of him, etc, it was him who was at the door.

So if when Jesus says that he and Father are one means he and Father are the same person, then when he says he is the person who is in need then also he and the person who is in need should be the same person.

So he would be one with all of us in the same way he is one with the Father, because all of us have been in need.

 

[sojourner]

No where does the Bible say Jesus and God are one in the same person.

God isn't "a person." God is three Persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Why do so-called Christians believe Jesus is God is because of clergy, not Bible, teachings.

John 1 clearly presents Jesus as Deific in nature.
The Bible isn't the only method of teaching.

If we trace mankind's religious family tree back to its roots in ancient Babylon that is where the idea started of Jesus and God being one.

If that's true, then it's also true that the religion, itself, has its roots in ancient Babylonian mythos...

This has resulted in a religious syncretism or a fusion of differing systems of non-Christian belief mixed together with biblical teachings but can not be reconciled to 1st-century biblical Christianity.

Judaism, itself, is such a system. Why not Xy?
What, precisely is "Christian belief?" I thought Xy was based in praxis, not belief.
Why is "1st century Xy" the only "valid" Xy?

It says that Jesus and the Father are one. The only allowable interpretation is that they are one in every way including one person.

Nope. Jesus and the Father are One, in that they constitute God. They are, however, distinct persons.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It says that Jesus and the Father are one. The only allowable interpretation is that they are one in every way including one person. If it were otherwise Jesus would have said I and my Father are one except in this way or only in this way. Or are you going to tell me that God wouldn't know enough to make the codicils?
Are you sayng tha tpast understandings are true simply becasue they are old? Will you then go back to selling indulgences because the old way is better?
i would like to see you support that one with proof.
I have come to that conclusion through the Bible understood with the help of the Paraclete not from teachers. How have you reached your understanding?

Then you are saying Jesus followers are also God ?__________
Because doesn't Jesus pray at John [17v3] that they [followers] be one just as he [Jesus] and his Father are one?___________ All be same person, or ______

Also, doesn't John [17v20] say that 'all' may be one as even the Father is in Jesus and Jesus in God....and may be one in us?

John [17v22] says they may be one as we are one.....perfected in unity ....

John [17v26] concludes with love that may be in them and I [Jesus] in them.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You are adding words to the scripture that aren't there. Jesus says nothing about purpose, faith, belief, or agreement in this prayer.

Then how were Jesus' followers 'one' with Jesus and God if not by unity?

Unity of purpose
Unity of faith and belief
Unity of agreement
Unity of goal
Unity of work
Unity of objective
Unity of will
Unity of oneness of spirit

Doesn't 1st Cor [1v10] say: that 'all' say the same thing; and that there be No dissensions [splits/ schisms] among you, but that you be perfectly united in one mind and in one judgment.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

God isn't "a person." God is three Persons: Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
John 1 clearly presents Jesus as Deific in nature.
The Bible isn't the only method of teaching.
If that's true, then it's also true that the religion, itself, has its roots in ancient Babylonian mythos...
Judaism, itself, is such a system. Why not Xy?
What, precisely is "Christian belief?" I thought Xy was based in praxis, not belief.
Why is "1st century Xy" the only "valid" Xy?
Nope. Jesus and the Father are One, in that they constitute God. They are, however, distinct persons.

If God is not a person then how do you explain Hebrews 9 v24?

Do you agree that God nor Jesus are: its ?
The masculine always applies to: God and Jesus.
However, according to the Greek at Romans [8 vs16,26] God's holy spirit is an 'it' or 'itself'.
-Numbers 11vs16,17

Why is the letter 'a' inserted at John [1v1] and Not at Acts [28v6 B] when the same Greek grammar rule applies at both verses ?

The religion of Abraham did Not have roots in Babel
The pagan religions of the world and 'apostate Christianity' have roots tracing back to pagan Babylon teachings.

Why wouldn't the 'first-century teachings' of Jesus be the only genuine Christianity ?

Sure, Jesus and his Father are one, and isn't it true according to John [17vs11,21,22,23] that Jesus followers are one just as Jesus and God are one?

Didn't Jesus followers know Jesus by name?
Then, whose name was Jesus declaring to them at John 17 vs26, 6?
-John 8vs42,28

 

[Shermana]

John 1 clearly presents Jesus as Deific in nature.

Non trinitarian Translations of John 1:1

Jesus being "a god" still would be "Deific" but not in a different sense, and it conforms more to what Anatolian Philo-reading jews would be familiar with. Some translations use "Divine beings" for "gods" when referring to the angels, so the use of "Deity" and "Divinity" is debatable.

And yes, Acts 28:6 is with the same use of a lack of article to be "a god". The same should be regarded with John 10:33.

Nope. Jesus and the Father are One, in that they constitute God. They are, however, distinct persons.

So when he says of the Disciples "Let them be one as we are one", the Disciples would now constitute G-d by this logic.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Non trinitarian Translations of John 1:1

Jesus being "a god" still would be "Deific" but not in a different sense, and it conforms more to what Anatolian Philo-reading jews would be familiar with. Some translations use "Divine beings" for "gods" when referring to the angels, so the use of "Deity" and "Divinity" is debatable.
And yes, Acts 28:6 is with the same use of a lack of article to be "a god". The same should be regarded with John 10:33.
So when he says of the Disciples "Let them be one as we are one", the Disciples would now constitute G-d by this logic.

God or joined together in the same mind and same judgment. Fellowship.
-1st Cor 1 vs9,10; 1st John 1v3

Besides angels, any comment about the human judges of Psalm 82?

 

[drakonyx]

Jesus never told people to worship him. They asked them to follow him. Big difference. He said he followed God - only did what he saw his father doing - and never mentioned worshiping him (at least not that I can recall). The emphasis was on following a holy example, not worshiping someone as a god.