Jesus is God?

[Popeyesays]

In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was with God
and the Word was God. Gospel of John chapter 1 verse 1


and the Word became flesh... Gospel of John Chapter 1 verse 14

settled.... You either believe or you don't but it's not as
though it's not in the Bible.

The word was "BE!" and the Flesh was all of Creation.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Booko]

Jesus said that he existed before Abraham. what was he if he could do that?

Preexistent, and therefore more than just a human like us.

That may or may not mean Jesus was God, however.

 

[Booko]

If John had meant to claim Jesus is God, he would have. However, he said Jesus was the Son of God and the Messiah. The Messiah is not God, and the Son of God is not God.

Regards,
Scott

The stronger verse is the one where Jesus says of the end times that He doesn't know when that is...only the Father knows.

So if Jesus is God then he has a very compartmentalized memory or something.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Preexistent, and therefore more than just a human like us.

That may or may not mean Jesus was God, however.

Then why was all power and authority in heaven and earth given to him? Why is he sitting at the right hand of the Father?

 

[Booko]

You need to read my OP in: "Is Jesus God in the Flesh" under Religious Debates. I refer there to the Messianic statement in Isaiah that the Messiah is the Everlasting Father (God) and the Prince of Peace (Jesus). For good measure the Paraclete is included as "The wonderful Counselor."

I'm aware of the verse in the Tenach describing King Messiah, which includes some of the titles you list.

How do you square the title of "Prince of Peace" being applied to Jesus when Jesus said He came not to bring peace but a sword?

 

[Booko]

Then why was all power and authority in heaven and earth given to him? Why is he sitting at the right hand of the Father?

That would seem entirely appropriate for the "Son of God" would it not?

If the Son were God he would not be seated at His own right hand. He'd be smack in the middle on da big throne, eh?

edit: My son sits at my right hand, but he isn't me.

 

[Michel07]

That would seem entirely appropriate for the "Son of God" would it not?

If the Son were God he would not be seated at His own right hand. He'd be smack in the middle on da big throne, eh?

edit: My son sits at my right hand, but he isn't me.

This is precisely why human understanding of God and the doctrine of the Holy Trinity as three persons in one was introduced by St. Patrick to the people of his time , first , holding up a tree leaf clover. And only after that explaining how it is possible for God to be three in one.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

That would seem entirely appropriate for the "Son of God" would it not?

If the Son were God he would not be seated at His own right hand. He'd be smack in the middle on da big throne, eh?

edit: My son sits at my right hand, but he isn't me.

Well, now we get into the whole idea of the trinity. "Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," Jesus is a subordinate of the Father but shares authority. This subject has its own thread but to some it up; there are people like myself who believe that the term "God" implies a collective like a team. Others don't. As long as Jesus has all authority, he's God to me.

 

[Booko]

This is precisely why human understanding of God and the doctrine of the Holy Trinity as three persons in one was introduced by St. Patrick to the people of his time , first , holding up a tree leaf clover. And only after that explaining how it is possible for God to be three in one.

Uh, dude, that's a myth about St. Patrick. That and the thing about the snakes.

However, since I'm not uncomfortable with paradoxes like Jesus saying in one place things that imply that He is not God while in other places things that imply He is God, it doesn't exactly keep me up nights.

The nature of the few figures in human history like Jesus are very paradoxical, which is why we struggle with things like this and, all of us being well meaning and striving to do our best, we still come up with divergent answers.

 

[Michel07]

The word was "BE!" and the Flesh was all of Creation.

Regards,
Scott

Please explain the "BE"

As well please explain the next sentence in John 1- 14
which is
" and made his dwelling among us "

not " WE"

 

[Booko]

Well, now we get into the whole idea of the trinity. "Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," Jesus is a subordinate of the Father but shares authority. This subject has its own thread but to some it up; there are people like myself who believe that the term "God" implies a collective like a team. Others don't. As long as Jesus has all authority, he's God to me.

My bottom line is if Jesus told His followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...then it would be best if they were obedient and did so.

And I don't actually have a problem with the notion that Jesus spoke with all authority, and most certainly for that time He was given to speak. Jesus was the closest thing to God anyone could manage for those who saw Him, and for the many who came after.

Here's the analogy I use -- if you look at the reflection of the sun in a mirror, you can say "That's the sun" and you'd be correct. You could also say "That's not the sun" because it's the image and not the actual sun. Both statements are true.

Likewise, if Jesus speaks as if He's God, that's correct. And if in another place He speaks as if He is not God, that is also correct.

Paradoxes are such fun.

 

[Michel07]

Uh, dude, that's a myth about St. Patrick. That and the thing about the snakes.

However, since I'm not uncomfortable with paradoxes like Jesus saying in one place things that imply that He is not God while in other places things that imply He is God, it doesn't exactly keep me up nights.

The nature of the few figures in human history like Jesus are very paradoxical, which is why we struggle with things like this and, all of us being well meaning and striving to do our best, we still come up with divergent answers.

Hey dude that's cool . You know man, some get it and some don't , dude.

I hope everyone knows how to spell facetious.

 

[Popeyesays]

Please explain the "BE"

As well please explain the next sentence in John 1- 14
which is
" and made his dwelling among us "

not " WE"

Every speck of hydrogen, every recognizable bit of matter, every particle or wave of energy, every star, planet, living thing in all of Creation dwell among us.

"BE!" was the command that created every creature from subatomic particle to the largest star in all the universe.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Michel07]

Every speck of hydrogen, every recognizable bit of matter, every particle or wave of energy, every star, planet, living thing in all of Creation dwell among us.

"BE!" was the command that created every creature from subatomic particle to the largest star in all the universe.

Regards,
Scott

and if that is so where did that come from.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

My bottom line is if Jesus told His followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...then it would be best if they were obedient and did so.

And I don't actually have a problem with the notion that Jesus spoke with all authority, and most certainly for that time He was given to speak. Jesus was the closest thing to God anyone could manage for those who saw Him, and for the many who came after.

Here's the analogy I use -- if you look at the reflection of the sun in a mirror, you can say "That's the sun" and you'd be correct. You could also say "That's not the sun" because it's the image and not the actual sun. Both statements are true.

Likewise, if Jesus speaks as if He's God, that's correct. And if in another place He speaks as if He is not God, that is also correct.

Paradoxes are such fun.

I follow you. What if I were to point at the sun and say, "That's not the sun?"

Obviously, that would be wrong. But to most Christians, saying Jesus is not God is just as ludicrous and can be construed as blasphemy considering what he did for us on the cross. I don't mean to step on other peoples toes, its just my deep beliefs,

 

[Popeyesays]

and if that is so where did that come from.

"That" is a pronoun without a reference. What does "that" refer to?

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

I follow you. What if I were to point at the sun and say, "That's not the sun?"

Obviously, that would be wrong. But to most Christians, saying Jesus is not God is just as ludicrous and can be construed as blasphemy considering what he did for us on the cross. I don't mean to step on other peoples toes, its just my deep beliefs,

Blasphemy is a term without a lot of modern meaning. It was only "blasphemy" by the fiat of clergy and church elders. Where did Jesus ever refer to Himself as God, in His own words? I am not interested in editorial comments by the authors of the Gospels, mind you--only direct quotes of the words of Jesus IN the Gospels. Not the epistles or the Apocalypse, or even the Acts of the Apostles, but in the Gospels. If you have a red letter edition that is useful--anywhere in Jesus' own words in Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

My bottom line is if Jesus told His followers to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit...then it would be best if they were obedient and did so.

And I don't actually have a problem with the notion that Jesus spoke with all authority, and most certainly for that time He was given to speak. Jesus was the closest thing to God anyone could manage for those who saw Him, and for the many who came after.

Here's the analogy I use -- if you look at the reflection of the sun in a mirror, you can say "That's the sun" and you'd be correct. You could also say "That's not the sun" because it's the image and not the actual sun. Both statements are true.

Likewise, if Jesus speaks as if He's God, that's correct. And if in another place He speaks as if He is not God, that is also correct.

Paradoxes are such fun.

Paradox is a lesson for the learning. One should creatively face one every day.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

I follow you. What if I were to point at the sun and say, "That's not the sun?"

Obviously, that would be wrong. But to most Christians, saying Jesus is not God is just as ludicrous and can be construed as blasphemy considering what he did for us on the cross. I don't mean to step on other peoples toes, its just my deep beliefs,

Here's another lesson created by paradox;

I look at the sun of today and say, that is not the sun of yesterday.

I am right, I am wrong.

Regards,
Scott

 

[YmirGF]

Here's another lesson created by paradox;

I look at the sun of today and say, that is not the sun of yesterday.

I am right, I am wrong.

Regards,
Scott

And I am no longer the person I was when I began this sentence. :flirt:

BTW: I just thought, Scott...
If you were in fact God incarnate, do you actually think you would have to say so? I liken it to asking the prices for meals in a very expensive restaurant. If you have to ask the prices, you simply cannot afford to eat there. Likewise, if one is driven to proclaim, "I am god" the chances are that they are not.