Jesus is God?

[Popeyesays]

And I am no longer the person I was when I began this sentence. :flirt:

BTW: I just thought, Scott...
If you were in fact God incarnate, do you actually think you would have to say so? I liken it to asking the prices for meals in a very expensive restaurant. If you have to ask the prices, you simply cannot afford to eat there. Likewise, if one is driven to proclaim, "I am god" the chances are that they are not.

Anthropomorphizing again, Paul.

It takes a Moses or a Jesus to be able to commune with God to the point that a meaningful revelation can be communicated.

Once again, no human can be God incarnate because a human is finite and God is not.

Regards,

Scott

 

[Popeyesays]

And I am no longer the person I was when I began this sentence. :flirt:

You are and you aren't.
Regards,
Scott

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The stronger verse is the one where Jesus says of the end times that He doesn't know when that is...only the Father knows.

So if Jesus is God then he has a very compartmentalized memory or something.

I rather like the explicit declaration in John 17:3 Where Yeshua, in his prayer to his god, says "You are the true god and I am the anointed one whom you have sent"

I think in order to be sent there must be a sender.....A trinitarian on this thread has said over and over again that God "can pray to himself" so it's to be expected that Yeshua is God....... I don't buy it....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Then why was all power and authority in heaven and earth given to him? Why is he sitting at the right hand of the Father?

Now look at your question. Can you honestly say he is God?

"Authority and power was given to him in heaven"

Who "GAVE" him this? If he is God what can be given to him if all belongs to him....if he is the creator and sole controller?

In order to be given.....there must be a giver.

If he sits next to God how can he then be God?

 

[YmirGF]

Anthropomorphizing again, Paul.

It takes a Moses or a Jesus to be able to commune with God to the point that a meaningful revelation can be communicated.

Once again, no human can be God incarnate because a human is finite and God is not.

Regards,

Scott

So, what you are saying Scott is that "god" is not omnipotent, as there are some things that "god" cannot do. Is that, at least, fair to say?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Well, now we get into the whole idea of the trinity. "Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," Jesus is a subordinate of the Father but shares authority. This subject has its own thread but to some it up; there are people like myself who believe that the term "God" implies a collective like a team. Others don't. As long as Jesus has all authority, he's God to me.

Some church leaders didn't quote it that way;

Eusebius Pamphilus quoted it as;

“Mt. 28:18: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mt. 28:19: Go ye, and make disciples of all nations in my name:
Mt. 28:20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

Quotation found in his “Oration in praise of the Emperor Constantine,” Chapter XVI, (335 A.D.), in “The Church History of Eusebius”, Book III, Chapter V (324 A.D.). in his Demonstratio Evangelica Book III, Chapter 6 (318 A.D.), in his Theophania

 

[Dirty Penguin]

How do you square the title of "Prince of Peace" being applied to Jesus when Jesus said He came not to bring peace but a sword?

Additionally these quotes here;

Luke 22:35,36,38

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]35 Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler's bag, or extra clothing, did you lack anything?" "No," they replied.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]36 "But now," he said, "take your money and a traveler's bag. And if you don't have a sword, sell your clothes and buy one![/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica]38 "Lord," they replied, "we have two swords among us." "That's enough," he said.

And it also makes me think of the story in Luke 19. where some people, even some muslims, say this is Yeshua condoning violence against his enemies in the story he told.
[/FONT]

 

[YmirGF]

Anthropomorphizing again, Paul.

No, Scott. I am not especially prone to that, although I would suggest you do more than you might think. It was a simple "what if" scenario to make a rather valid point.

It takes a Moses or a Jesus to be able to commune with God to the point that a meaningful revelation can be communicated.

It would simply not occur to me to put the being alleged to be Moses in the same category as the Christ, Scott. Heck, Moses didn't even know where he was going and there is that nasty business of chatting with burning shrubs. I might be inclined to compare Moses to Muhammed, but only under cosiderable duress.

 

[Popeyesays]

No, Scott. I am not especially prone to that, although I would suggest you do more than you might think. It was a simple "what if" scenario to make a rather valid point.

It would simply not occur to me to put the being alleged to be Moses in the same category as the Christ, Scott. Heck, Moses didn't even know where he was going and there is that nasty business of chatting with burning shrubs. I might be inclined to compare Moses to Muhammed, but only under cosiderable duress.

Main Entry: an·thro·po·mor·phize Pronunciation: \-ˌfīz\ Function: verb Inflected Form(s): an·thro·po·mor·phized; an·thro·po·mor·phiz·ing Date: 1845 transitive verb : to attribute human form or personality to intransitive verb : to attribute human form or personality to things not human

Your words:

"BTW: I just thought, Scott...
If you were in fact God incarnate, do you actually think you would have to say so?"

That's attributing God to a human form which is classic for anthropomorphizing.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Some church leaders didn't quote it that way;

Eusebius Pamphilus quoted it as;

“Mt. 28:18: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mt. 28:19: Go ye, and make disciples of all nations in my name:
Mt. 28:20: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

Quotation found in his “Oration in praise of the Emperor Constantine,” Chapter XVI, (335 A.D.), in “The Church History of Eusebius”, Book III, Chapter V (324 A.D.). in his Demonstratio Evangelica Book III, Chapter 6 (318 A.D.), in his Theophania

Sorry, what exactly are you trying to say?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Now look at your question. Can you honestly say he is God?

"Authority and power was given to him in heaven"

Who "GAVE" him this? If he is God what can be given to him if all belongs to him....if he is the creator and sole controller?

In order to be given.....there must be a giver.

If he sits next to God how can he then be God?

God is a collective.

 

[Booko]

God is a collective.

God is a pinko??? :faint:

 

[Jeremy Mason]

God is a pinko??? :faint:

What's a pinko???

 

[Booko]

What's a pinko???

Oh my! I've so dated myself.

Uh...it's vintage 50s terminology for "communist"

You said collective and it was just such a good opportunity for levity I couldn't pass it up.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Oh my! I've so dated myself.

Uh...it's vintage 50s terminology for "communist"

You said collective and it was just such a good opportunity for levity I couldn't pass it up.

I learn something everyday. Thank you.

 

[Popeyesays]

So, what you are saying Scott is that "god" is not omnipotent, as there are some things that "god" cannot do. Is that, at least, fair to say?

\\God has done as He willed, He made us what we are, not what any one of us might think he might be.

Suppose God we are all the water in the universe and He wished to pour Himself into a teacup. Would that succeed? Of course, not and no fault to God, it is the teacup which has a measured capacity. Each of us has a measured capacity if it varies from individual to individual--one may have a thimble, one might have a gallon bucket.

When God pours Himself into the container the container fills to its capacity and what is contained is no longer "God", it's simply a full container of measured capacity.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Sorry, what exactly are you trying to say?

Come on.... you really need me to clarify that????

It appears that the version of Matthew that some church leaders were quoting from did not say what you quoted......To me, and I can only go by the research I have done, it appears that the version of Matthew 28:19 you quoted may not be able to be trusted since early church leaders may not have been reading that rendering. Pamphilus was a trinitarian who help shape the doctrine of the early church. It is said that no known copy of Matthew existed until the 3rd century but here we have Pamphilus quoting from it and the quote you see in most bibles today, especially the KJV, he did not quote.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

God is a collective.

This does nothing to answer the question I asked......

If Yeshua is God (fully God and fully man) as trinitarians believe then how can God be given authority if he is master or heaven and earth? Are there 2 gods????? One giving the power and the other receiving????

 

[YmirGF]

\\God has done as He willed, He made us what we are, not what any one of us might think he might be.

Suppose God we are all the water in the universe and He wished to pour Himself into a teacup. Would that succeed? Of course, not and no fault to God, it is the teacup which has a measured capacity. Each of us has a measured capacity if it varies from individual to individual--one may have a thimble, one might have a gallon bucket.

When God pours Himself into the container the container fills to its capacity and what is contained is no longer "God", it's simply a full container of measured capacity.

Regards,
Scott

I guess that is a rather obtuse way of saying "yes" then, as you have rationalized, however limply, that "god" is not omnipotent. In effect, there are some things that "god" cannot do -- for whatever reason. Sorry, your brilliant allusion simply doesn't hold water in my perspective. For any being capable of creating All That Is, I would think that creating an imagine in human form would be akin to child's play... but I must be anthropomorphizing again.

So, what other limits do your preconception place on "god", Scott?

 

[YmirGF]

God is a collective.

Frankly, to my thinking, that is a fair answer, not one I would give, but not altogether incorrect either.