Jesus is not God

[Ebionite]

I explained this in another topic. The sons of elohim (elohim can also refer to kings, but this is not the case here) cannot shed blood outside of the sacrifice. Many priests used maces to inflict pain without shedding blood.

maces

Is there a connection between the use of maces and the crucifixion?

Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of YHWH revealed?
Isaiah 53:1

Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man [that is] my fellow, saith YHWH of armies: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zechariah 13:7

 

[Ebionite]

Don't worry about it. @Ebionite quotes parts of the Old Covenant out of context to try to justify his ideas of what Christianity is. Of course, it doesn't work.

Christians quite often say things like that when they don't know what the context is.

 

[Jimmy]

These are very good scriptures, but really think about it, what are we trying to determine? Does the bible teach the Trinity?

• The Bible over a 100 times uses the words [ son ] and [ father ] when talking about Jesus and his father, this would be considered a Bible teaching. [ 100% Bible teaching! ] John 3:16 Jesus is called God's one and only son. Do we believe this? I do!
• The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God Co-equal and Co-eternal to each other, is [ not ] a Bible teaching. Why? because the Bible does not mention it even one time! This would [ not ] be considered a Bible teaching! [ Zero % Bible teaching! ]

Most Christian’s believe Jesus is god in the flesh.

 

[Ebionite]

Levitical priests must be holy to their God and must not profane the name of their God. Because they present the food offerings to the Lord, the food of their God, they are to be holy.

This doesn't apply to anyone else.

But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I [am] YHWH your Elah, which have separated you from [other] people.
Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean.
And ye shall be holy unto me: for I YHWH [am] holy, and have severed you from [other] people, that ye should be mine.
Leviticus 20:24-26

 

[Ebionite]

Paul's defective character???

Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against [them].
And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled [them] to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted [them] even unto strange cities.
Acts 26:10-11

As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9


When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
Psalms 109:7

Because that he remembered not to shew mercy, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
As he loved cursing, so let it come unto him: as he delighted not in blessing, so let it be far from him.
As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.
Let it be unto him as the garment [which] covereth him, and for a girdle wherewith he is girded continually.
Psalms 109:16-19

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Jehovah God is total righteous without sin. So God had to send Jesus in the likeness of sinful man to take the fall and be a sin offering. Romans 8:1 God sent his Son in the likeness of sinful man to become a sin offering.

Romans 8:1??
I don’t read that.

Adam, before he rebelled (or sinned), was a perfect man. As a son of God. (Luke 3:38) Since A&E only had children after they’d sinned, all their offspring, including us, inherited that imperfect condition.

So Jesus, as a corresponding ransom, came to Earth as a perfect man. That’s why sacrificing his perfect life exactly matched Adam’s perfect life, which he had lost.

 

[Trailblazer]

Does the bible teach the Trinity?

No, the Bible does not teach the Trinity. The Trinity is a man-made doctrine which was created at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.

 

[YoursTrue]

'God/Gad' is the name of a semitic deity of fortune.


That is what appeared to have happened but they failed. The prophetic support for such an event doesn't exist and there is a distinction between the righteous servant and the crucified man.


Righteousness is a translation of the Hebrew word for justice. It's unjust to punish the innocent. Paul's doctrine is unreliable because of Paul's defective character as evidenced by his persecution of the disciples, his false testimony and slander, his conflict with James, and his description in prophecy.

The word God is something most people recognize albeit in their own languages.

 

[YoursTrue]

Keep ignoring the facts.

Why, you think people didn't kill him?

 

[YoursTrue]

No, the Bible does not teach the Trinity. The Trinity is a man-made doctrine which was created at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.

Just to say, there was a big argument over who Jesus really was at that time.

 

[walt]

Most Christian’s believe Jesus is god in the flesh.

I think it is the greatest thing to put Jesus at a very high belief! I do myself. I follow Jesus Lead, when a man called him good teacher, Jesus replied only one is good God. my point is this, if Jesus gives all the credit to his father for being good, even though Jesus never sinned!

I give all the credit to the father as well, I put Jesus on a very high pedestal, but still the Father is higher than Jesus, like the Bible says the head of Jesus is God. I use Jesus words to direct my thinking, my actions and my beliefs. Jesus words is my Foundation, my Rock!

 

[jimb]

Acts 9:31
New International Version
Then the church throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria enjoyed a time of peace and was strengthened. Living in the fear of the Lord and encouraged by the Holy Spirit, it increased in numbers.

Acts 21:20
New International Version
When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.

Seriously? You take Acts 21:20 (out of context) to claim that Christians are under the OT law? Paul stated many times about being under the OT law vs having freedom in Christ. Here is just three examples...

Romans 6:14, "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace."

Romans 7:1-6, with my emphasis): Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."

2nd Corinthians 3:6 expresses the same thought, but uses different wording: "He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

Is that clear enough for you???

 

[Jimmy]

I think it is the greatest thing to put Jesus at a very high belief! I do myself. I follow Jesus Lead, when a man called him good teacher, Jesus replied only one is good God. my point is this, if Jesus gives all the credit to his father for being good, even though Jesus never sinned!

I give all the credit to the father as well, I put Jesus on a very high pedestal, but still the Father is higher than Jesus, like the Bible says the head of Jesus is God. I use Jesus words to direct my thinking, my actions and my beliefs. Jesus words is my Foundation, my Rock!

Yeah the father is God and the son is God in the flesh

 

[jimb]

NONE of those mean that Jesus is God. Only God is God.

• I and the Father are one: (John 10:30) - That means that Jesus and the God are one in their purpose and they both have the Holy Spirit.
• Before Abraham was, I am - That means that the soul of Jesus existed in the spiritual world before Abraham was born in this world.
• If you've seen me, you've seen the Father - That means that Jesus was a mirror image of His Father since he had the same attributes as the Father. An image of something is an image, it is not the same as the entity it reflects.

No, all of those mean that Jesus is God!

 

[walt]

Yeah the father is God and the son is God in the flesh

I respect your love for the Bible, but I have to disagree with you because, I use Jesus words if he doesn't say it, neither do I.

 

[Ebionite]

Why, you think people didn't kill him?

Because there's no reliable theology to support the idea and the related prophetic texts describe another man being crucified.

 

[jimb]

These are very good scriptures, but really think about it, what are we trying to determine? Does the bible teach the Trinity?

• The Bible over a 100 times uses the words [ son ] and [ father ] when talking about Jesus and his father, this would be considered a Bible teaching. 100% Bible teaching! John 3:16 Jesus is called God's one and only son. Do we believe this? I do!
• The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God Co-equal and Co-eternal to each other, is [ not ] a Bible teaching. Why? because the Bible does not mention it even one time! This would [ not ] be considered a Bible teaching! [ Zero % Bible teaching! ]

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So, clearly not "100% Bible teaching! This states the truth in plain language!!

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God Co-equal and Co-eternal to each other. Your disbelief doesn't change that fact.

 

[walt]

No, all of those mean that Jesus is God!

Honestly, jimb what is more important that we figure out what we think the Bible is saying, are we follow the instructions Jesus gives us specifically?

[ figure something out ] versus [ listen to Jesus words and adjust our beliefs ] ?

 

[jimb]

I respect your love for the Bible, but I have to disagree with you because, I use Jesus words if he doesn't say it, neither do I.

John 10:30, "I and the Father are one.” Jesus' own words!

 

[walt]

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So, clearly not "100% Bible teaching! This states the truth in plain language!!

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one God Co-equal and Co-eternal to each other. Your disbelief doesn't change that fact.

Jesus is prophesied to be called Mighty God at Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1 is just a fulfillment of that prophecy!

Are you trying to say that Jesus is a Mighty God or God Almighty?