Jesus is not God

[Ebionite]

why don't we quote Jesus words and leave the rest in the closet?

Because having knowledge of the context leads to understanding the meaning.

 

[cataway]

I’ll take that as a yes. No Wonder why you don’t think Jesus is God.

i am going by what the bible says . you , you want to go by what you ''want'' to believe . regardless of what's in the bible

 

[cataway]

I’ll take that as a yes. No Wonder why you don’t think Jesus is God.

i have to ask, do you know who Jehovah is ?

 

[blü 2]

Betho_br said:
John 1:49 Young's Literal Translation
Nathanael answered and saith to him, `Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the king of Israel.'



John 20:28 New International Version
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

1) Lord = YHWH; theos = God

2) Lord = Adoni It never refers to God, but always to a human superior. (occasionally an "angel" messenger) and my "theos" = god (elohim, a king, son of kings, a priest, a divine magistrate.)

It is an ambiguous expression with several interpretations, with several polysemantic terms. Choosing one interpretation does not indicate that it will be true.

And this expression was still fragile due to the lack of "thou art" existing by the same author in John 1:49.

The TR for John 20:28 is

καὶ ἀπεκρίθη Ὁ Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου​

So the word attributed to Thomas in the text is 'theos' ─ the standard word for 'god'. John 20:28 is not a translation from biblical Hebrew.

 

[Trailblazer]

It’s in there. Go look

Go look. It's not in there.
If it was in there you could show me where it is.

 

[YoursTrue]

'God/Gad' is the name of a semitic deity of fortune.


That is what appeared to have happened but they failed. The prophetic support for such an event doesn't exist and there is a distinction between the righteous servant and the crucified man.


Righteousness is a translation of the Hebrew word for justice. It's unjust to punish the innocent. Paul's doctrine is unreliable because of Paul's defective character as evidenced by his persecution of the disciples, his false testimony and slander, his conflict with James, and his description in prophecy.

Jesus said that the Father was greater than He was and that we are supposed to worship God the Father, not Jesus the Son.
I consider it reprehensible that Trinitarion Christians worship Jesus, as Jesus did not want to be worshiped.
Moreover, Jesus is not the Lord, God is the Lord.

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Ok. Before I became one of Jehovah's witnesses I had no idea who God was or what He would do. I liked Handel's Messiah and the words are set to music. The words are taken strictly from the scriptures. I still didn't believe what the Bible said although I was a paid, professional singer. Now, however, after studying the Bible, I do believe that Jesus is the son of God, that he is one with the Father which does not mean he is equal to the Father but concurs with everything the Father says, and that he is not part of a Trinity. And we haven't even touched on what some view as the third person of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Because there's no reliable theology to support the idea and the related prophetic texts describe another man being crucified.

I don't believe your interpretation is correct. And I don't just take your word for it.

 

[jimb]

jimb, I just follow Jesus Leed, read John 17:3, Jesus gives his father in his prayer all the credit for being the one true God.

So I have to follow Jesus Leed, and do the same.

Seriously? You take one verse out of context to prove your point? If you want to play that game, here is John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Notice the second part that I have bolded. Here is Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Note that the Bible says "God created the heavens and the earth" and Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." Therefore, JESUS IS GOD, who created the heavens and the earth.

If you claim to follow Jesus' lead, why don't you believe what the Bible clearly says about Him???

Jesus is God and God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are also God: one and the same.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you even a Christian?

No, I am not, but how is that relevant to the point?
JWs are Christians and they believe that Jesus is not God.
And they are not the only Christians who believe that Jesus is not God.

Does all Christianity believe Jesus is God?

Most Christians believe that Jesus, as well as being fully human, is also fully God. Most Christians believe that Jesus is the second person of the Holy Trinity. and is the Son of God.
Christian beliefs about Jesus - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - OCR

Do you even realize how illogical it is to say that Jesus was fully human and fully God?
That belief is completely inane, as well as insane.

No, I am not a Christian but my belief about Jesus actually makes sense since I believe that Jesus was both human and divine, and as such Jesus had a twofold nature, one part human and one part divine.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 64-69

 

[walt]

Because having knowledge of the context leads to understanding the meaning.

I feel if you read John chapter 17 every word,

• Jesus refers to the person he is praying to as his father.
• Jesus refers to himself as his son.
• Jesus explains fully about Oneness and what it means.
• Jesus explains fully who the one true God is, and does not mention himself at all.
• please read all the texts and the surrounding text and let me know if it changes the meaning of any of Jesus' words please?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you a jehovah?

How is that relevant?

 

[jimb]

Ok. Before I became one of Jehovah's witnesses I had no idea who God was or what He would do. I liked Handel's Messiah and the words are set to music. The words are taken strictly from the scriptures. I still didn't believe what the Bible said although I was a paid, professional singer. Now, however, after studying the Bible, I do believe that Jesus is the son of God, that he is one with the Father which does not mean he is equal to the Father but concurs with everything the Father says, and that he is not part of a Trinity. And we haven't even touched on what some view as the third person of God.

Read my post immediately above this one.

 

[jimb]

I feel if you read John chapter 17 every word,

• Jesus refers to the person he is praying to as his father.
• Jesus refers to himself as his son.
• Jesus explains fully about Oneness and what it means.
• Jesus explains fully who the one true God is, and does not mention himself at all.
• please read all the texts and the surrounding text and let me know if it changes the meaning of any of jesus' words please?

Why do you insist on talking one chapter out of 1,189 -- the total number of chapters in the Bible -- to prove doctrine and ignore the rest? Clearly, you have decided in advance what the Bible should say and ignore what the other 1,188 chapters say.

@Ebionite is 100% correct when he says "having knowledge of the context leads to understanding the meaning".

I assume that you've heard of eisegesis. Here is the definition:

1. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there.
2. Personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas.

That is precisely what you are doing.

 

[cataway]

lets not for get ,Jesus speaking

John 14:28​

You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

 

[Jimmy]

No, I am not, but how is that relevant to the point?
JWs are Christians and they believe that Jesus is not God.
And they are not the only Christians who believe that Jesus is not God.

Does all Christianity believe Jesus is God?

Most Christians believe that Jesus, as well as being fully human, is also fully God. Most Christians believe that Jesus is the second person of the Holy Trinity. and is the Son of God.
Christian beliefs about Jesus - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - OCR

Do you even realize how illogical it is to say that Jesus was fully human and fully God?
That belief is completely inane, as well as insane.

No, I am not a Christian but my belief about Jesus actually makes sense since I believe that Jesus was both human and divine, and as such Jesus had a twofold nature, one part human and one part divine.

“Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testifieth the tradition: “Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is.” …. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.” “Say, praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle?”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 64-69

If you’re not a Christian, why do you care so much about what other people believe about Jesus?

 

[walt]

Seriously? You take one verse out of context to prove your point? If you want to play that game, here is John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Notice the second part that I have bolded. Here is Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Note that the Bible says "God created the heavens and the earth" and Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." Therefore, JESUS IS GOD, who created the heavens and the earth.

If you claim to follow Jesus' lead, why don't you believe what the Bible clearly says about Him???

Jesus is God and God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are also God: one and the same.

jimb I made a list of how many times, and what is said in the Bible that Jesus is without a shadow of a doubt God's one and only son John 3:16
and God is his father. would you like to see it?

 

[walt]

Why do you insist on talking one chapter out of 1,189 -- the total number of chapters in the Bible -- to prove doctrine and ignore the rest? Clearly, you have decided in advance what the Bible should say and ignore what the other 1,188 chapters say.

@Ebionite is 100% correct when he says "having knowledge of the context leads to understanding the meaning".

I assume that you've heard of eisegesis. Here is the definition:

1. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there.
2. Personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas.

That is precisely what you are doing.

this is a Bible teaching in the Bible it repeats words to prove it over 100 times, do you want to see it?

 

[walt]

Why do you insist on talking one chapter out of 1,189 -- the total number of chapters in the Bible -- to prove doctrine and ignore the rest? Clearly, you have decided in advance what the Bible should say and ignore what the other 1,188 chapters say.

@Ebionite is 100% correct when he says "having knowledge of the context leads to understanding the meaning".

I assume that you've heard of eisegesis. Here is the definition:

1. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there.
2. Personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas.

That is precisely what you are doing.

can you use Jesus words to explain what you believe: [ Jesus doing the explaining only please ] not one extra word please, just Jesus.

• three of anything or anybody is one God, is this ever explained by Jesus?
• 3 being co-equal and co-eternal?
• if you believe Jesus is not really God's one and only son, please provide Jesus words to explain why you do not follow Jesus words?

 

[Ebionite]

I don't believe your interpretation is correct. And I don't just take your word for it.

What you believe isn't important.

 

[Trailblazer]

Seriously? You take one verse out of context to prove your point? If you want to play that game, here is John 1:1-3, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Notice the second part that I have bolded. Here is Genesis 1:1, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Note that the Bible says "God created the heavens and the earth" and Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." Therefore, JESUS IS GOD, who created the heavens and the earth.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word refers to the divine perfections that appeared in Jesus Christ, and these perfections were with God. The Word does not mean the body of Jesus but rather the divine perfections manifested in Jesus. Jesus was like a clear mirror and the divine perfections were visible and apparent in this mirror. Therefore, the Word was the divine appearance. This is the meaning of the verse which says: “The Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When God sent Jesus, the Word was made flesh because God was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

You can't get it any plainer than that. God was manifest in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. If God had been incarnated in the flesh, then God would have become flesh and we would be able to see God; but Jesus said no man has ever seen God. We know that many people saw Jesus so that is one way we know that Jesus was not God.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 1 King James Version (KJV)
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Verses 3 and 4 are about God, not about Jesus. All things were made by God since God created the heavens and the earth. In God was life and the life was the light of man.


“God is not a man that He should tell or act a lie. Neither the Son of Man, that He should feel repentance or compulsion for what He has promised; has He said, and shall He not do it or as He spoken and shall He not make it good?”
Numbers 23:19(AMPC)

This Scripture is opening us first-hand to see that God is not a man. When the Bible says God is not a man, God is not a man. God created man; He is not man, God created nature; He is not nature, God created the earth; He is not earth, God created the heavens; He is not heaven. God is God and the Bible says God is not a man.

https://centrendl.org/blog/god-is-not-a-man/

If you claim to follow Jesus' lead, why don't you believe what the Bible clearly says about Him???

Jesus is God and God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are also God: one and the same.

No, the Bible does not say what you believe. The man-made Trinitarian doctrine says it.

They are not one and the same, and that is why they are described differently in the Bible...

The Son was a Manifestation/Messenger/Prophet of God sent by God.
The Holy Spirit is the Bounty of God whose luminous rays emanated from the Son.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are one in the sense that they are ‘one in Purpose.’
They work together, but they are separate, not ‘part of God.’ God cannot be divided into parts.
God is exalted above anything that can ever be perceived so God remains in His own high place, on His Throne.
God never descends to earth.

God sent Jesus from heaven and Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit from the womb of Mary into a human body. Later, after Jesus reached a certain age, God sent the Holy Spirit to Him and it descended upon Him like a dove when Jesus was baptized. After Jesus received the Holy Spirit from God the Father, Jesus brought the Holy Spirit to believers and it dwelt in believers.

The Holy Spirit does not enter the body, but rather it has a direct connection to the body through the soul, which is associated with the mind. That is what the indwelling Holy Spirit means to me.