Ebionite
Well-Known Member
He never referred to his father as a person.
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Jesus is not God
- Thread starter andy
- Start date
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
You are correct in this sense, Jesus words are important, if you are not using them word for word, then why bother with any of it?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I care about the Truth and that is why I will never stop presenting it.
Jimmy
Veteran Member
Your truth. Plus you’re not even Christian!
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Because critical thinking matters.
But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Matthew 9:13
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
Trailblazer I respect your comments and the scriptures you find, even though you have different holy scriptures also, you quote the Bible, not adding your own ideas, you respect the written word and specifically you respect Jesus words word for word. 
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To @jimb : the Bible, yes, but not every English translation (or any translation) says the same thing, do they?
John 1:1 translated from Greek by Benjamin Wilson (a trinitarian):
“In a beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and a god was the Word.”
Another trinitarian, highly-acclaimed Catholic scholar & priest John McKenzie, realized John 1:1 wasn’t saying Jesus was God…
He wrote: “Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God [= the Father], and the word was a divine being.’”—(Brackets are his. Bold type is mine. Published with nihil obstat and imprimatur.) Dictionary of the Bible (New York, 1965), p. 317.
In his German translation Ludwig Thinme expresses it in this way: “God of a sort the Word was.” Referring to the Word (who became Jesus Christ) as “a god” is consistent with the use of that term in the rest of the Scriptures. For example, at Psalm 82:1-6, human judges in Israel were referred to as “gods” (Hebrew, ’elo·himʹ; Greek, the·oiʹ, at John 1034) because they were representatives of Jehovah and were to speak his law.
John 1:1 translated from Greek by Benjamin Wilson (a trinitarian):
“In a beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and a god was the Word.”
Another trinitarian, highly-acclaimed Catholic scholar & priest John McKenzie, realized John 1:1 wasn’t saying Jesus was God…
He wrote: “Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God [= the Father], and the word was a divine being.’”—(Brackets are his. Bold type is mine. Published with nihil obstat and imprimatur.) Dictionary of the Bible (New York, 1965), p. 317.
In his German translation Ludwig Thinme expresses it in this way: “God of a sort the Word was.” Referring to the Word (who became Jesus Christ) as “a god” is consistent with the use of that term in the rest of the Scriptures. For example, at Psalm 82:1-6, human judges in Israel were referred to as “gods” (Hebrew, ’elo·himʹ; Greek, the·oiʹ, at John 1034) because they were representatives of Jehovah and were to speak his law.
The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956, vol.XXVII, states: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(p. 294L)
The Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel declares: “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
Don’t you think it’s wise to check out for yourself, instead of others leading (read, misleading) you around?
The information (from unbiased sources) is available for you to find.
John 1:1 translated from Greek by Benjamin Wilson (a trinitarian):
“In a beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and a god was the Word.”
Another trinitarian, highly-acclaimed Catholic scholar & priest John McKenzie, realized John 1:1 wasn’t saying Jesus was God…
He wrote: “Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God [= the Father], and the word was a divine being.’”—(Brackets are his. Bold type is mine. Published with nihil obstat and imprimatur.) Dictionary of the Bible (New York, 1965), p. 317.
In his German translation Ludwig Thinme expresses it in this way: “God of a sort the Word was.” Referring to the Word (who became Jesus Christ) as “a god” is consistent with the use of that term in the rest of the Scriptures. For example, at Psalm 82:1-6, human judges in Israel were referred to as “gods” (Hebrew, ’elo·himʹ; Greek, the·oiʹ, at John 1034) because they were representatives of Jehovah and were to speak his law.
John 1:1 translated from Greek by Benjamin Wilson (a trinitarian):
“In a beginning was the Word and the Word was with the God and a god was the Word.”
Another trinitarian, highly-acclaimed Catholic scholar & priest John McKenzie, realized John 1:1 wasn’t saying Jesus was God…
He wrote: “Jn 1:1 should rigorously be translated ‘the word was with the God [= the Father], and the word was a divine being.’”—(Brackets are his. Bold type is mine. Published with nihil obstat and imprimatur.) Dictionary of the Bible (New York, 1965), p. 317.
In his German translation Ludwig Thinme expresses it in this way: “God of a sort the Word was.” Referring to the Word (who became Jesus Christ) as “a god” is consistent with the use of that term in the rest of the Scriptures. For example, at Psalm 82:1-6, human judges in Israel were referred to as “gods” (Hebrew, ’elo·himʹ; Greek, the·oiʹ, at John 1034) because they were representatives of Jehovah and were to speak his law.
The Encyclopedia Americana, 1956, vol.XXVII, states: “Christianity derived from Judaism and Judaism was strictly Unitarian [believing that God is one person]. The road which led from Jerusalem to Nicea was scarcely a straight one. Fourth century Trinitarianism did not reflect accurately early Christian teaching regarding the nature of God; it was, on the contrary, a deviation from this teaching.”—(p. 294L)
The Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel declares: “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato, fourth century B.C.E.] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—(Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.
Don’t you think it’s wise to check out for yourself, instead of others leading (read, misleading) you around?
The information (from unbiased sources) is available for you to find.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, it is not my truth, it is God's truth according to the Bible.
And the fact that I am not a Christian means I can be more objective on the matter.
walt
Jesus is King & Mighty God Isa.9:6-7; Lk.1:32-33
I agree with you 100%, but my way is totally different than yours, I am critical of anything and everything if it is not word for word Jesus words or an Apostles words or spoken from God when he speaks to Moses.
Jimmy
Veteran Member
“I am the way the truth and the life.” Make of it what you will
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Arbitrary criteria are arbitrary.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I already have made of it what I willed. I believe it means that Jesus was the way the truth and the life during His dispensation.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I believe people's beliefs are important.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
The argument of faith vs works lays it out pretty well. For the vain, faith is entirely sufficient.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:20
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Beliefs are important to the believer since they guides their behavior.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Certainly. Faith without works is dead.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
In context, it's about Pauline doctrine. The beliefs that constitute faith have to come from somewhere.
Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You quoted it about faith. And yes, faith without works is dead.
James 2:14-26
"What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
O foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is worthless?h Was not our father Abraham justified by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith was working with his actions, and his faith was perfected by what he did. And the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called a friend of God. As you can see, a man is justified by his deeds and not by faith alone.
In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the spies and sent them off on another route? As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yep. Exactly.
And, as a man, you are deciding it isn’t?