Jesus is not God

[jimb]

Being ‘In the nature of God’ in no way means ‘IS GOD’… simple common-sense tells you that.

• ‘In the manner of God’
• ‘Like God’
• ‘Image of God’

… mimic, imitate, copy, …

There is an original, and there ARE those who can be any or all of the terms stated above. But none of them ARE the original.

Someone ‘filled with the glory of God’ is not God, either.

You're twisting Scuba Pete's Bible quote. The Bible doesn't say "in the nature of God". It says "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage" Philippians 2:6

Your "simple common sense" is getting in the way of true understanding.

What do you think that this means? "Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" John 14:9

 

[Soapy]

You're twisting Scuba Pete's Bible quote. The Bible doesn't say "in the nature of God". It says "Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage" Philippians 2:6

Your "simple common sense" is getting in the way of true understanding.

What do you think that this means? "Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" John 14:9

What are you talking about… your responses are getting even more diabolical (and what is the base meaning of DIABOLICAL!!) each time.

I asked you what you meant by ‘the nature of God’ (or similar relating to ‘Nature of God’). But, as usual, you cannot answer because you do not know!! What you did was copy the ideology of others and did not even try (pointless!) to find what it meant - which leads you to squirming now!!!

But even sayjng: ‘Being in the nature of God’ or ‘Being in very nature God’… how does that say, ‘was God’?

God is God, and there is none like Him: ‘Beside(s) me there is no (other) God’, says YHWH GOD, ‘No, I know not one!’.

When did YHWH ever say that He and another deity (in fact, by trinity, TWO OTHER DEITIES) created all things including creating Man “in HIS image”?

By Trinity: Is a PERSON, A SOUL, THREE PARTS…? Three EQUAL PARTS?

By Trinity: Is YHWH composed of THREE PARTS?

By trinity: What are the three parts of YHWH?

Please answer DIRECTLY… no meandering nor squirming away from the truth… it’s not shameful to not know… if you don’t then just say so. The wurst things is to continue in ignorance by making things up as it only leads to public embarrassment later on!

 

[jimb]

What are you talking about… your responses are getting even more diabolical (and what is the base meaning of DIABOLICAL!!) each time.

I asked you what you meant by ‘the nature of God’ (or similar relating to ‘Nature of God’). But, as usual, you cannot answer because you do not know!! What you did was copy the ideology of others and did not even try (pointless!) to find what it meant - which leads you to squirming now!!!

But even sayjng: ‘Being in the nature of God’ or ‘Being in very nature God’… how does that say, ‘was God’?

God is God, and there is none like Him: ‘Beside(s) me there is no (other) God’, says YHWH GOD, ‘No, I know not one!’.

When did YHWH ever say that He and another deity (in fact, by trinity, TWO OTHER DEITIES) created all things including creating Man “in HIS image”?

By Trinity: Is a PERSON, A SOUL, THREE PARTS…? Three EQUAL PARTS?

By Trinity: Is YHWH composed of THREE PARTS?

By trinity: What are the three parts of YHWH?

Please answer DIRECTLY… no meandering nor squirming away from the truth… it’s not shameful to not know… if you don’t then just say so. The wurst things is to continue in ignorance by making things up as it only leads to public embarrassment later on!

I have no reason to reply to your hostile post.

Read my signature (below)...

P.S. "wurst" is a type of sausage!

 

[Soapy]

I have no reason to reply to your hostile post.

Read my signature (below)...

P.S. "wurst" is a type of sausage!

Aha!!! Gotcha!!!

 

[Sargonski]

I have no reason to reply to your hostile post.

Read my signature (below)...

P.S. "wurst" is a type of sausage!

Aha!!! Gotcha!!!

The Truth is not hostile .. even though you may find it so.. Jesus never thought he was God .. this is clear from the Bible .. "My God My God -- Why have you forsaken me" .. the last words of our Savior .. expressing that his God has been hostile to him .. abandoned him .. left him to die strung up on a tree .. something that was not his Will . but the will of his God .. the one that has forsaken him.

This is a difficult truth for those who believe in the man made trinity dogma -- but the Truth is that Jesus rejects the Trinity ..and the Bible in general..

Telling you this Truth Jimb --is not an insult -- even though you may feel insulted . . the insult you have brought upon yourself .. and is not the fault of the messengers .. whome you so often like to shoot. .. upon hearing bad news.

 

[Soapy]

The Truth is not hostile .. even though you may find it so.. Jesus never thought he was God .. this is clear from the Bible .. "My God My God -- Why have you forsaken me" .. the last words of our Savior .. expressing that his God has been hostile to him .. abandoned him .. left him to die strung up on a tree .. something that was not his Will . but the will of his God .. the one that has forsaken him.

This is a difficult truth for those who believe in the man made trinity dogma -- but the Truth is that Jesus rejects the Trinity ..and the Bible in general..

Telling you this Truth Jimb --is not an insult -- even though you may feel insulted . . the insult you have brought upon yourself .. and is not the fault of the messengers .. whome you so often like to shoot. .. upon hearing bad news.

Thanks..

One little minor thing: Jesus doesn’t reject the trinity since there never was a trinity for him to reject.

The way you said it makes it sound like there was a trinity preached but that Jesus denied it!!!! But, of course, no one ever preached a trinity until certain false teachers of the newly formed Christian faith started to convert pagans by appealing to the pagans belief in many Gods.

The idea was that pagans could more easily be proselytised if they ‘kept’ their pagan multiple Gods BUT just called them ‘ONE GOD’ - not three.

You will see this format in the Athanasian Creed where it is demanded that, ‘Though they are THREE, they are BUT ONE GOD’.

‘Three WHAT’? THREE People or THREE Gods?
Confusion means the three cannot be given a definition since doing so means opening up to ridicule.

Is God a Person?

Is Jesus a Person IN GOD?

If Jesus is ‘The Son OF God’…
If The Holy Spirit is ‘The Spirit OF God’…
Why isn’t there ‘The Father OF God’?

Ask these to a trinitarian and watch them freak out or squirm in discomfort (The freaking and Squirming can be looked upon like how the demons in the ‘mad man’ felt and acted when Jesus confronted them!)

 

[Colt]

Exactly my point is the deity of jesus, Jesus is not God. I was a non-believer and had a mind of show me when I first read the Bible. At no time when I read the Bible thought that Jesus was ever God from reading the scriptures. It was when I atteneded main stream Church I was introduced to the Trinity and the idea Jesus was God. The Bible does not teach Jesus is God but man doctrine. Hope this helps in your questions to my thread.

Both human and divine. Some people come to realize that Jesus was/is much more than human but not the Universal Father. As a divine Son to see Jesus was to see the Father. Jesus was cryptic about his true identity as a preexistent divine being, but he would also refer to it. To the religious authorities Jesus's reference to his divinity was offensive. Ultimately Jesus was killed for his claims of divinity.

 

[jimb]

Thanks..

One little minor thing: Jesus doesn’t reject the trinity since there never was a trinity for him to reject.

The way you said it makes it sound like there was a trinity preached but that Jesus denied it!!!! But, of course, no one ever preached a trinity until certain false teachers of the newly formed Christian faith started to convert pagans by appealing to the pagans belief in many Gods.

The idea was that pagans could more easily be proselytised if they ‘kept’ their pagan multiple Gods BUT just called them ‘ONE GOD’ - not three.

You will see this format in the Athanasia Creed where it is demanded that, ‘Though they are THREE, they are BUT ONE GOD’.

‘Three WHAT’? THREE People or THREE Gods?
Confusion means the three cannot be given a definition since doing so means opening up to ridicule.

Is God a Person?

Is Jesus a Person IN GOD?

If Jesus is ‘The Son OF God’…
If The Holy Spirit is ‘The Spirit OF God’…
Why isn’t there ‘The Father OF God’?

Ask these to a trinitarian and watch them freak out or squirm in discomfort (The freaking and Squirming can be looked upon like how the demons in the ‘mad man’ felt and acted when Jesus confronted them!)

I believe exactly what the Bible says. As a result, I don't accept anyone's false interpretation.

John 14:25-26, "I [Jesus] have spoken these things while staying with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you."

The entire trinity in two verses! Jesus, the Son, God, the Father, and the Advocate, the Holy Spirit.

Either a person believes what the Bible clearly says, or they don't.

 

[Soapy]

I believe exactly what the Bible says. As a result, I don't accept anyone's false interpretation.

John 14:25-26, "I [Jesus] have spoken these things while staying with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you."

The entire trinity in two verses! Jesus, the Son, God, the Father, and the Advocate, the Holy Spirit.

Either a person believes what the Bible clearly says, or they don't.

There are only TWO persons in those verses, Jesus and God.

Where is there a trinity when there are only two involved?

 

[Muffled]

Many years I did not believe in God and had no religion. It was not until I met my wife I seen the light. You see my wife was a Born again Christian and to get on her good side I attended her Church when we first met. I started to read the Bible on my own and I was caught up in the word. When I read the Bible I did not even hear or think Jesus was ever God. It was not until I started attending Church on a regular basis the concept of a Trinity.

I believe things in the word are not always readily apparent. If you have a question, ask those who know for their rationale.

 

[Muffled]

I`m not sure what Andy wants No*s but I`d like to hear Biblical support for the diety of Jesus.

I had a post about that a long time ago and it ran over 500 pages.

 

[Muffled]

Yes Jesus is not God.

Jesus

Christ





​

Definition: The only-begotten Son of God, the only Son produced by Jehovah alone. This Son is the firstborn of all creation. By means of him all other things in heaven and on earth were created. He is the second-greatest personage in the universe. It is this Son whom Jehovah sent to the earth to give his life as a ransom for mankind, thus opening the way to eternal life for those of Adams offspring who would exercise faith. This same Son, restored to heavenly glory, now rules as King, with authority to destroy all the wicked and to carry out his Fathers original purpose for the earth. The Hebrew form of the name Jesus means "Jehovah Is Salvation"; Christ is the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma·shi´ach (Messiah), meaning "Anointed One

Strangely enough you are technically correct. I believe Jesus is God in the flesh which is not the same thing.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus is equal to the father but the Father is greater then Jesus.

Please show me how that work?
If Jesus is equal to the Father then the Father is equal to the Son… agree?? Equality is commutative, isn’t it?

John 14:28 I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater Than I.

The traditions at that time was the son was equal to the father but the father was always head. Example a King has a son, that son has the same authority as the King but is not the King. Jesus being equal to the Father does not make him God. John 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.

Where is this ‘Tradition’ written or spoken of?

What if the Father has more than one Son? Are all the Sons equal to the Father and EACH inherits ALL that the Father has?

Aren’t the Sons “Heirs” to the Father BUT ONLY INHERIT WHEN the Father dies (of abdicates)?

Isn’t Jesus ‘an Heir’ TO GOD?

 

[jimb]

There are only TWO persons in those verses, Jesus and God.

Where is there a trinity when there are only two involved?

You need to read more carefully. There are three persons mentioned.

"I [Jesus] have spoken these things while staying with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you."

 

[Soapy]

You need to read more carefully. There are three persons mentioned.

No there aren’t three… where is the third person in that verse?

"I [Jesus] have spoken these things while staying with you. But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and will cause you to remember everything I said to you."

The ‘Holy Spirit’ (the Spirit of God) is not a person… it is exactly what it says: ‘The SPIRIT of God / The Spirit of the Father’.

That’s why the Father can SEND it… It’s HIS OWN to send to whom He Wills,

Jesus PASSES ONTO the Aposties ‘The GIFT FROM THE Father’: ‘Wait in Jerusalem until I send you the gift the Father promised you’.
A postal delivery worker is not the OWNER of the Gift he delivers to the addressee!!!

• “I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.” (Joel 2:28 Acts 2:17)
• ‘Behold, I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.’ (Prov 1:23)

 

[jimb]

No there aren’t three… where is the third person in that verse?

The ‘Holy Spirit’ (the Spirit of God) is not a person… it is exactly what it says: ‘The SPIRIT of God / The Spirit of the Father’.

That’s why the Father can SEND it… It’s HIS OWN to send to whom He Wills,

Jesus PASSES ONTO the Aposties ‘The GIFT FROM THE Father’: ‘Wait in Jerusalem until I send you the gift the Father promised you’.
A postal delivery worker is not the OWNER of the Gift he delivers to the addressee!!!

If you don't understand the Bible then there is nothing to discuss.

"“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me." John 15:26

Acts 5:32, "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Romans 5:5, "And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

1 Corinthians 6:19, "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own"

Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

2 Timothy 1:14, "Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

Hebrews 3:7, "So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice"

Hebrews 10:15, "The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Whom", "he", "who", and "his" are all personal pronouns.

 

[Sargonski]

Thanks..

One little minor thing: Jesus doesn’t reject the trinity since there never was a trinity for him to reject.

The way you said it makes it sound like there was a trinity preached but that Jesus denied it!!!! But, of course, no one ever preached a trinity until certain false teachers of the newly formed Christian faith started to convert pagans by appealing to the pagans belief in many Gods.

The idea was that pagans could more easily be proselytised if they ‘kept’ their pagan multiple Gods BUT just called them ‘ONE GOD’ - not three.

You will see this format in the Athanasian Creed where it is demanded that, ‘Though they are THREE, they are BUT ONE GOD’.

‘Three WHAT’? THREE People or THREE Gods?
Confusion means the three cannot be given a definition since doing so means opening up to ridicule.

Is God a Person?

Is Jesus a Person IN GOD?

If Jesus is ‘The Son OF God’…
If The Holy Spirit is ‘The Spirit OF God’…
Why isn’t there ‘The Father OF God’?

Ask these to a trinitarian and watch them freak out or squirm in discomfort (The freaking and Squirming can be looked upon like how the demons in the ‘mad man’ felt and acted when Jesus confronted them!)

Yes .. Nobody had ever heard of the Trinity never mind believed in such a thing until Tertullian ~200AD - put forth forth something vaguely similar which was declared Heresy by the Church at Large .. taking another century to get any kind of traction as an ideology.

All the Early Church Fathers prior to Tertullian .. and most for many decades after believed Jesus was divine but that he was subordinate to "The Father" ..

 

[Soapy]

If you don't understand the Bible then there is nothing to discuss.

"“When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me." John 15:26

Acts 5:32, "We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Romans 5:5, "And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.

1 Corinthians 6:19, "Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own"

Ephesians 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

2 Timothy 1:14, "Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.

Hebrews 3:7, "So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice"

Hebrews 10:15, "The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Whom", "he", "who", and "his" are all personal pronouns.

Is ‘WISDOM’ a Person… it’s depicted as a FEMALE (She / Her)?

You are in fear at seeing the truth that the SPIRIT OF GOD is JUST THAT: ‘The spirit of the Father’.

When I show you those proofs you simply ignore them - cannot even respond to WHY you don’t believe them… but it’s obvious why you can’t respond to the truth… you cannot!!

The Spirit of God is termed ‘the Holy Spirit’ by TRINITARIANS exactly to as to distance it from its true meaning: ‘The Spirit of the Father’.

God (the Father) ———— (The Father’s Spirit)

Does Jesus have a Spirit of his own?

Do all Men have a Spirit of their own?

If you answer the questions set to you then you would realise your errors (or maybe that’s why you do not answer!!)

In addition, The Spirit of the Father is THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.. that is why it must not be grieved… If truth is grieved then there is no hope…. If truth can be turned into a lie then there is no hope for anyone - nothing can be held as certainty. Anarchy will arise!

Let me ask you: Why is YOUR THIRD PERSON the only one of your trinity that must not be grieved???
Are you saying that you can grieve the Father…and it will be still ok?
Are you saying that it is ok to grieve Jesus Christ and all will be ok??

Is grieving only ONE of your trinity make for INEQUALITY in the trinity?

Why is the GREATEST in the trinity set as THE THIRD, and obscure, not even worthy of mentioning by Jesus Christ and the apostles:

• ‘I and the Father are One’
• ‘Father, …Eternal life depends on them coming to know you, the only true God…’
• ‘Father, Abba, why have you deserted me…’
• ‘I will send to you THE GIFT FROM the Father which will remain with you…’
• ‘Greetings from GOD, the Father, and from Jesus Christ, our Lord…’
• ‘Stephen, looking in vision into Heaven, saw the GLORY OF GOD (you cannot see God, the Father) with Jesus Christ STANDING next to Him.

 

[jimb]

Is ‘WISDOM’ a Person… it’s depicted as a FEMALE (She / Her)?

You are in fear at seeing the truth that the SPIRIT OF GOD is JUST THAT: ‘The spirit of the Father’.

When I show you those proofs you simply ignore them - cannot even respond to WHY you don’t believe them… but it’s obvious why you can’t respond to the truth… you cannot!!

The Spirit of God is termed ‘the Holy Spirit’ by TRINITARIANS exactly to as to distance it from its true meaning: ‘The Spirit of the Father’.

God (the Father) ———— (The Father’s Spirit)

Does Jesus have a Spirit of his own?

Do all Men have a Spirit of their own?

If you answer the questions set to you then you would realise your errors (or maybe that’s why you do not answer!!)

In addition, The Spirit of the Father is THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.. that is why it must not be grieved… If truth is grieved then there is no hope…. If truth can be turned into a lie then there is no hope for anyone - nothing can be held as certainty. Anarchy will arise!

Let me ask you: Why is YOUR THIRD PERSON the only one of your trinity that must not be grieved???
Are you saying that you can grieve the Father…and it will be still ok?
Are you saying that it is ok to grieve Jesus Christ and all will be ok??

Is grieving only ONE of your trinity make for INEQUALITY in the trinity?

Why is the GREATEST in the trinity set as THE THIRD, and obscure, not even worthy of mentioning by Jesus Christ and the apostles:

• ‘I and the Father are One’
• ‘Father, …Eternal life depends on them coming to know you, the only true God…’
• ‘Father, Abba, why have you deserted me…’
• ‘I will send to you THE GIFT FROM the Father which will remain with you…’
• ‘Greetings from GOD, the Father, and from Jesus Christ, our Lord…’
• ‘Stephen, looking in vision into Heaven, saw the GLORY OF GOD (you cannot see God, the Father) with Jesus Christ STANDING next to Him.

This verse applies to you...

John 9:41: Jesus replied [to the Pharisees], "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now because you claim that you can see, your guilt remains."

You, like the Pharisees, just want to argue instead of gaining understanding. I

As I said previously, If you don't understand the Bible then there is nothing to discuss. So will not discuss this with you any longer.

 

[Soapy]

This verse applies to you...

John 9:41: Jesus replied [to the Pharisees], "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin, but now because you claim that you can see, your guilt remains."

You, like the Pharisees, just want to argue instead of gaining understanding. I

As I said previously, If you don't understand the Bible then there is nothing to discuss. So will not discuss this with you any longer.

You are the one running away because you know your argument is false. If you had truth then you would present it so that it is known to the world.

You seem ready to sprint away into hiding the moment your argument falls apart since you don’t really know what you are debating… you are just regurgitating what you heard in falsity from others.​

And, pointing out verses that apply to YOU does not make them apply to me, though everyone should be be wary of falling into the pit of deceit did to complacency and pride… I am aware, thanks.

Now, answer the questions set to you to show you are credible in your ideology.

If you cannot answer then just say so!!

The Spirit of God is termed ‘the Holy Spirit’ by TRINITARIANS exactly to as to distance it from its true meaning: ‘The Spirit of the Father’.

God (the Father) ———— (The Father’s Spirit)

Does Jesus have a Spirit of his own?

Do all Men have a Spirit of their own?

If you answer the questions set to you then you would realise your errors (or maybe that’s why you do not answer!!)

In addition, The Spirit of the Father is THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.. that is why it must not be grieved… If truth is grieved then there is no hope…. If truth can be turned into a lie then there is no hope for anyone - nothing can be held as certainty. Anarchy will arise!

Let me ask you: Why is YOUR THIRD PERSON the only one of your trinity that must not be grieved???
Are you saying that you can grieve the Father…and it will be still ok?
Are you saying that it is ok to grieve Jesus Christ and all will be ok??

Is grieving only ONE of your trinity make for INEQUALITY in the trinity?

Why is the GREATEST in the trinity set as THE THIRD, and obscure, not even worthy of mentioning by Jesus Christ and the apostles:

• ‘I and the Father are One’
• ‘Father, …Eternal life depends on them coming to know you, the only true God…’
• ‘Father, Abba, why have you deserted me…’
• ‘I will send to you THE GIFT FROM the Father which will remain with you…’
• ‘Greetings from GOD, the Father, and from Jesus Christ, our Lord…’
• ‘Stephen, looking in vision into Heaven, saw the GLORY OF GOD (you cannot see God, the Father) with Jesus Christ STANDING next to Him.