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Jesus is not God

Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
wellwisher said:
Theoretically, a complete concept of God would need to include everything, since God is omniscience and omnipresent. This is conceptually beyond the human mind to comprehend and put into words, except as an intuition. Personification of God, is therefore more of a projection, based on a human subset, of what a complete concept of God is.

Concepts like the trinity break down the infinity, that is God, into three bite size pieces, based on how the majority of people worship and project.

As an analogy, Joe is a son to his parents, a husband to his wife, and a father to his children. He is respectful of his parents, loving and loyal to his wife, and firm but fair to his children. His parents interact in one way with him; nostalgia, his wife who is intimate with him interacts differently, while his children know him and interact with him in a third way.

Joe is one person but has three hats. The hat he uses depends on who is interacting with. This can get confusing during holidays, when all generations are in the same room and his children see Joes being treated like a child by his parents.

The Trinity works the same way. Some people interact with God like he is a father. They tend to be more connected to the Old Testament; Creationists. Other Christians see God as the son called Jesus. They relate in terms of an empathy for a child, who suffers but is nevertheless very positive and a source of love. Others worship in terms of the spirit, which is a creative animation of their soul; revivalists. All are parts of the whole and together unite the family of man. During the holidays, like Christmas, they all overlap and interchange; unity.
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It is not that I don't understand. I just don't agree with you.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Ellen Brown said:
As many as he wants. :) Islamics believe in at least 99.
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Do you see how that compares to the trinity? We have 3 aspects of God.. father, son and holy ghost.. and then Muslims have 99 aspects of God. Maybe we are closer than we realize.
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
Do you see how that compares to the trinity? We have 3 aspects of God.. father, son and holy ghost.. and then Muslims have 99 aspects of God. Maybe we are closer than we realize.
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You are not trying to get me to follow the rules are you?

I think that when God wills it, there will be no belief systems because we will see the Creator in our own reality, and he will live among us. The Jews, G_d's chosen, call him Hashem and that means "The Name".
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Faithofchristian said:
Colossians 1:16-17, in speaking about Jesus,
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist"
Do you understand what it means Jesus is the first born of all creation?
This means that Jesus was before anything was created. For all things were created by Jesus.
As Colossians above States.
Revelation 1:8--- I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty"
So what you have, Jesus is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning of all things and the ending of all things.
Jesus is the Almighty God.
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I find Jesus is Mighty God ( and Not Almighty ) according to Isaiah 9:6.
Both God and LORD/Lord are titles - Psalms 110.
Yes, Jesus was before all things, but Jesus was Not 'before' the beginning of things - Revelation 3:14 B.
Only his God was before the beginning as per Psalms 90:2 being from everlasting. No beginning.
Since Jesus was God's heavenly ' first born ' (God was 'before' the first of anything) - Colossians 1:15; Ephesians 3:9
This is why God could send His heavenly first born Son to Earth for us. Jesus did Not send himself.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Ellen Brown said:
I think that when God wills it, there will be no belief systems because we will see the Creator in our own reality, and he will live among us. The Jews, G_d's chosen, call him Hashem and that means "The Name".
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Where the Tetragrammaton YHWH appears in Scripture that is what stands for God's name.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The Reverend Bob said:
I don't care about what your theology or commentary says. It doesn't matter. What matters is what the text says. Why did they want to stone him? They gave a reason as plain as day. What does the text say?
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Stone Jesus for blasphemy for saying 'he is the Son of God' according to John 10:36,39.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
sooda said:
Do you see how that compares to the trinity? We have 3 aspects of God.. father, son and holy ghost..................
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By saying holy ghost instead of holy spirit makes Gods' spirit come across as an apparition.
In 1833 Noah Webster replaced ghost with spirit because God's spirit is Not an apparition.
Webster wrote that when the words are understood in a sense different from that which they had when introduced, and different from that of the original languages they do No present the reader the Word of God.
So, it is No wonder that God's spirit is a neuter "it" at Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25.
And before modern translations tried to change ''it" to him at Romans 8:16; Romans 8:26.
So, when God sends forth His spirit (Psalms 104:30) it is impersonal.
Impersonal like the power from a power-plant grid to light lights, etc.
And, as needs or demands change so does God's measured-out spirit - Nehemiah 9:20; Isaiah 63:11; Job 27:3
 
Ellen Brown

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
URAVIP2ME said:
I find Jesus is Mighty God ( and Not Almighty ) according to Isaiah 9:6.
Both God and LORD/Lord are titles - Psalms 110.
Yes, Jesus was before all things, but Jesus was Not 'before' the beginning of things - Revelation 3:14 B.
Only his God was before the beginning as per Psalms 90:2 being from everlasting. No beginning.
Since Jesus was God's heavenly ' first born ' (God was 'before' the first of anything) - Colossians 1:15; Ephesians 3:9
This is why God could send His heavenly first born Son to Earth for us. Jesus did Not send himself.
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I don't believe that way largely owing to the way that Christians treat people that are different.
 
U

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Ellen Brown said:
I don't believe that way largely owing to the way that Christians treat people that are different.
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Your ^ above ^ words prove Jesus' words as found at Matthew 7:21-23 to be true.
Jesus forewarned us that MANY would come 'in his name' but prove false. - see also Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30.
They are the fake ' weed/tares ' So-called Christians, and Not the genuine ' wheat ' Christians.
This is why ' Christendom ' (so-called Christian but mostly in name only) will be the first to go.
In other words, house cleaning will start with the House of God ( those who claim to serve Him) - 1 Peter 4:17
Genuine Christians ( see John 13:34-35 ) love even their enemies - Matthew 5:43-48
 
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ajay0

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Ellen Brown said:
I don't intend to debate on this. What I state is my belief, and others are welcome to theirs, and I will defend their right to their beliefs.

In the OT, when Moses first encounters God, he is told that he can not look upon God and live. Later on, God allows Moses to see him and he comes out all bleached.

Yes, I know that in the NT Jesus says that "I and the Father are one", but I think that means, in context, that the Father and he agree. If Jesus were God, then no one could have looked at him, and people DID look at him, even after the resurrection.

I think that the "Jesus as God" idea came out of the folly of what became the early Catholic Church.

I'm not going to dig all the references out. We all claim to be out of diapers, so you can do it yourself.
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The Dharmic monotheistic sect, the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, also do not consider Jesus to be God and consider him to be a son of the incorporeal God.

The Prajapita Brahmakumaris is the only spiritual organisation in the world led, administered and taught by ladies, and they have teaching centres in all countries. Free seven day courses are taught by lady teachers explaining their religious philosophy and meditation.
 
O

Octavio Siepi

New Member
It is my understanding that men can't see God since he doesn't really have any particular form and he is metaphysical, so he's outside of this physical world.
Jesus was just one part of that God in human flesh but remember that he still reigned supreme when Jesus was on earth, meaning that Jesus was just a manifestation of God but wasn't all of what God is because it's impossible for humans to see.
In Jesus we saw for the first an only time a physical manifestation of God in this world but it doesn't mean he is all of what God is because if that were true he would have had to exist only in Jesus at that moment however he was reigning and being everywhere as God the Father.
 
E

Etcetera

New Member
The book of Genesis says let US make man in OUR image.

So God (Elohiem) is the Father and the Son. God is the family name :)
 
E

Etcetera

New Member
sooda said:
The ugaritic tablets have been a huge help to serious bible scholars for the past 50 years.
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I do not consider myself a Bible scholar. I've been down that rabbit hole and it has served me no purpose. Besides, my initial post was keeping with the theme of the topic at hand. Would you like to debate that?
 
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