Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

[Desert Snake]

Thankyou for those verses, Wizanda.

How Christian Trinitarians cannot understand that the Roman and Greek cultures and Gods, along with others, were reversed into what would become the new religion, is just amazing.

In other words, everything in Scripture that disagrees with your made up religion, is fake.

So why didn't you just state that, before presenting verses, which would be arbitrary, anyway, because your made up religion isn't using Scripture, it's using your own version of Scripture, or made up Scripture.

 

[Trackdayguy]

In other words, everything in Scripture that disagrees with your made up religion, is fake.

So why didn't you just state that, before presenting verses, which would be arbitrary, anyway, because your made up religion isn't using Scripture, it's using your own version of Scripture, or made up Scripture.

Why the hostility. People disagree with you, its OK to disagree.

 

[Desert Snake]

As far as I know, Yahweh is the Hebrew pronunciation for God's personal name as found at Psalms 83:18.
Each language I find uses their accepted grammar pronunciation for God's name from from the Tetragrammaton.

You're going to encounter a problem, using different names, because Jesus is called Adonay Greek Adonai, same as the Father, presumably, in the OT.

If your argument is that Adonay does not mean JHVH, or Jehovah, necessarily, then you are inferring that you don't know who, or can't know who, Adonay, is referring to, in the OT.

This means or infers that the usage of Adonay, is vague, and could be referring to Baal Ashtoreth, Zeus, or any number of other gods.

If your argument is that Adonay always refers specifically, to the Father, then you are stating that Jesus is the Father, and that Jesus's name is JHVH, or 'Yahweh'.

 

[Trackdayguy]

You're going to encounter a problem, using different names, because Jesus is called Adonay Greek Adonai, same as the Father, presumably, in the OT.

If your argument is that Adonay does not mean JHVH, or Jehovah, necessarily, then you are inferring that you don't know who, or can't know who, Adonay, is referring to, in the OT.

This means or infers that the usage of Adonay, is vague, and could be referring to Baal Ashtoreth, Zeus, or any number of other gods.

If your argument is that Adonay always refers specifically, to the Father, then you are stating that Jesus is the Father, and that Jesus's name is JHVH, or 'Yahweh'.

Rather then travelling down the bumpy road of semantics why not concentrate on what your god is doing in your life rather than trying to convince people who dont share your convictions.

 

[Phantasman]

^



You just used Father, as a name. Contradiction to your argument.

/Also, of couse when Jesus is speaking, it infers that Jesus is speaking. Seems a arbitrary argument, generally.

I said "the" Father (capital F) over father which means to sire. No argument unless you're providing one.

 

[Desert Snake]

I said "the" Father (capital F) over father which means to sire. No argument unless you're providing one.

A description is necessary to equate your argument, to meaning. Otherwise, it could be a refutation to your own argument, etc.

 

[74x12]

With respect that definition wouldn't last 2 seconds in court. Just because you've been told its true, doesn't make it true, just because you believe it's true doesn't make it true. Can I encourage you to get a copy of: https://www.amazon.ca/Biblical-Literalism-Gentile-Christianity-Matthews/dp/0062362313

You're making this about me. I was asking you. Have you ever prayed about it? Apparently not.

 

[oldbadger]

Yeshua was the Right Arm of YHVH Elohim...

Which is why he said they had to love him more than family (Matthew 10:37), as he was an Avatar of YHVH.

YHVH's father is El Elyon (Deuteronomy 32:7-9).

YHVH told everyone in Hebrew within the Tanakh, that he'd become Yeshua:

H3444 + H1961 = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

In my opinion.

Fair enough, I acknowledge your belief about this.

Being a Deist and no more than an amateur Yeshua historian I can only perceive Yeshua as a man who led a mission for the return of the old laws, especially the poor laws, discarded by a fat, greedy, hypocritical, Hellenist and quisling priesthood.

 

[oldbadger]

If you are saying that 'Yahweh', is another name for Jehovah, therefore Jesus said to pray to 'Yahweh', then you are also inferring that Jesus said to pray to Himself, because Jesus, is called Adonay /Greek Adonai, which is considered to be a name for JHVH, cross language wise. This also infers that Jesus's name is JHVH, which we know, isn't your intent of argument.

Just a second........... Nobody in Galilee called Yeshua BarYosef any Greek names. None of the peasant classes in Galilee spoke much more that Eastern Aramaic.
Your para, above, is just Christian spin, snatched from goodness knows where.
The Jews called their God what they called their God. Today some folks translate that into 'I am', YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah... but these are translations.
And applying Greek names to Jesus shows how glaringly obvious it is that the Latins reversed their religions into Christianity, and vice versa.

Here's some light reading ion the subject:-
How Ancient Trinitarian Gods Influenced Adoption of the Trinity ...
https://www.ucg.org/...trinity/how-ancient-trinitarian-gods-influenced-adoption-of-the...
Many who believe in the Trinity are surprised, perhaps shocked, to learn that the idea of divine beings existing ... Rome worshipped Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto.
Trinity - Wikipedia
Trinity - Wikipedia
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity holds that God is one but three coeternal consubstantial ... Romans 8:9-11 implies the interdependency or interrelatedness of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, while examining the redeemed individual, saved by ...
‎Holy Spirit in Christianity · ‎Consubstantiality · ‎Trinity (disambiguation)
Pagan Roots of the Trinity Doctrine - What does the Bible say ...
www.biblicalunitarian.com › Articles
The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church Councils (Western and Eastern churches) brought the Trinity doctrine into Christianity. This occurred before there ...
The Origin of the Trinity: From Paganism to Constantine
www.heraldmag.org/olb/Contents/.../The%20Origin%20of%20the%20Trinity.htm
Even the names of the Roman trinity: Jupiter, Juno, and Minerva, reflect the ancestry. That Christianity was not ashamed to borrow from pagan culture is amply ...
The Pagan Origins Of The Trinity Doctrine - Is The Trinity Biblical
www.trinitytruth.org/paganoriginsofthetrinity.html
Is the trinity pagan or does the doctrine of the trinity have pagan origins or is it biblical or was ... This is the God that is worshipped in the Roman Catholic system.

 

[oldbadger]

In other words, everything in Scripture that disagrees with your made up religion, is fake.

So why didn't you just state that, before presenting verses, which would be arbitrary, anyway, because your made up religion isn't using Scripture, it's using your own version of Scripture, or made up Scripture.

I don't have a religion, but my historical studies DO use scripture, but only after careful investigation into each gospel, together with what archaeological, geographical, historical and other testimonial records can throw light upon.

You presumed I have a religion.......... what religion was that then?

 

[Desert Snake]

Just a second........... Nobody in Galilee called Yeshua BarYosef any Greek names. None of the peasant classes in Galilee spoke much more that Eastern Aramaic.

Adonay is used for JHVH, in the OT, at various places. Adonai is the Greek spelling.

And applying Greek names to Jesus shows how glaringly obvious it is that the Latins reversed their religions into Christianity, and vice versa.

So you say.

 

[Phantasman]

A description is necessary to equate your argument, to meaning. Otherwise, it could be a refutation to your own argument, etc.

Are you asking for a description of the word Father (capital F)?

 

[Desert Snake]

Are you asking for a description of the word Father (capital F)?

No, a description of what you mean by it. You can't refute what I presented, without context.

 

[Phantasman]

No, a description of what you mean by it. You can't refute what I presented, without context.

A description by Jesus to the disciple John after the crucifixion:

And I asked to know it, and he said to me, "The Monad is a monarchy with nothing above it. It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look.

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.

"He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior. Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light.

"For the perfection is majestic. He is pure, immeasurable mind. He is an aeon-giving aeon. He is life-giving life. He is a blessedness-giving blessed one. He is knowledge-giving knowledge. He is goodness-giving goodness. He is mercy and redemption-giving mercy. He is grace-giving grace, not because he possesses it, but because he gives the immeasurable, incomprehensible light.

"How am I to speak with you about him? His aeon is indestructible, at rest and existing in silence, reposing (and) being prior to everything. For he is the head of all the aeons, and it is he who gives them strength in his goodness. For we know not the ineffable things, and we do not understand what is immeasurable, except for him who came forth from him, namely (from) the Father. _Apocryphon of John

 

[URAVIP2ME]

My father isn't defined by his name. (Taking out cultural views). His role as a father is what's important. I can call him Jehoshaphat and he'd still be my father. Calling him father, dad, daddy, or Jehoshaphat is not near the pont of his role and relationship as parent.
How does calling god by name make him supreme?
Wouldn't it be his role and relationship to you and calling him any name would be your preference not your obligation?

I am wondering how people would get in touch with you without knowing your personal name.
If there is No name on your birth certificate what would people call you.
I find often the use of a name and a reputation go hand in hand.
I suppose that is why in Jesus' words God's name should be hallowed, held as sacred and used.
Jesus' preference was that he declared his Father's name according to John 17:6 ad John 17:26.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Taking out cultural views, though, by technicality how is a name seen as just as sacred as the role of the person who has it?
The reputation of my father isn't based on his name. His name is based on his reputation and culture. His character isn't dependent on a name to be a parent. Its his role as a parent first. If he had no name, how would he (and god) be any different if they had no names to label their roles respected or sacred?

True, ones character or reputation is Not not based on a particular name.
As Shakespeare said a rose by any other name is still a rose.
But if we give the rose another name it would then be known by that name but still remain a rose.
Seems that in each language everything has a label or name to be identified by.
We do Not introduce people just as mister or miss or misses but by personal name.
We certainly don't introduce or normally call a person as ' hey you '.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Absolutely.....
Jesus advised on how his followers could pray to their Lord, and this was also Jesus's Lord. It was all quite clear, I think.

I find in the King James version at Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD / Lord's mentioned.
The LORD in all Upper-Case letters is where the Tetragrammaton stands for God's name.
The Lord in some lower-case letters stand for the Lord Jesus and the Tetragrammaton does Not appear.
So, the God of Lord Jesus is LORD God ( Tetragrammaton YHWH)

 

[Desert Snake]

I suppose that is why in Jesus' words God's name should be hallowed, held as sacred and used.
Jesus' preference was that he declared his Father's name according to John 17:6 ad John 17:26.

Then you should care that Adonay is one of JHVH names. And you should figure out why Jesus was called Adonay, in the NT. /if you are using the NT.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not a very good view of heaven, angels going bad. That would mean it's not perfect as Jesus claimed.

In Genesis we learn about the fallen angels. ( All are created as free-will creation angelic or physical)
In Revelation we learn those fallen angels will never again inhabit heaven at Revelation 12:7-9,12
So, first the heavens were cleansed, then the earth will be cleansed.
There will be coming ' healing ' for earth's nations as described at Revelation 22:2.
That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation for Jesus to come !
Not pray to 'go' up to Jesus, Not pray to be 'taken away' to Jesus, but for 'Jesus to come', come and bring the benefit that all nations of earth will be healed.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Then you should care that Adonay is one of JHVH names. And you should figure out why Jesus was called Adonay, in the NT. /if you are using the NT.

Jewish Adonay ( Adhonai ) is: Sovereign Lord. That is Not the Tetragrammaton (YHWH)