Jesus Resurrection

[Subduction Zone]

Go ahead and quote him in context. Go on.

Why? Here is a longer snippet, sorry, I am not going to clean it up for you:

29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short.AF)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-28517AF" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

He still looks like a loon. Do you need a longer quote?

 

[Subduction Zone]

If i made up a lying story, i CANT believe it. That makes no sense.

That is only because hopefully you are sane. Crazy people believe all sorts of nonsense.

By the way, do you believe the flood myth?

 

[Jollybear]

Why? Here is a longer snippet, sorry, I am not going to clean it up for you:

29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short.AF)" data-cr="#cen-NIV-28517AF" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;"> From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

He still looks like a loon. Do you need a longer quote?

Quote the whole chapter.

 

[Jollybear]

That is only because hopefully you are sane. Crazy people believe all sorts of nonsense.

By the way, do you believe the flood myth?

Crazy people BELIEVE all sorts of things. Crazy people dont make up lies, then lie saying they truly believe it, nor do crazy people die for that made up lie.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Quote the whole chapter.

To what purpose? It still is lunacy relying on the end being near.

 

[Jollybear]

I gotta go to bed. Any further responses, ill reply to tomorow.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Crazy people BELIEVE all sorts of things. Crazy people dont make up lies, then lie saying they truly believe it, nor do crazy people die for that made up lie.

Here is your problem. You do not appear to understand what a lie is. A lie is a false statement with an intent to deceive. If one really believes the lunacy that one is spewing he is not lying. And crazy people do die for their own lunacy. There are countless examples of it and they sadly often take others with them. Another example would be David Koresh.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I gotta go to bed. Any further responses, ill reply to tomorow.

That is reasonable. Different time zones. I don't expect you to hang around 24/7. Have a good night and think about how being crazy means that one can believe nonsense and not be lying.

 

[leroy]

You do not seem to know who wrote the gospels. None of the gospels were written by eyewitnesses. Why are you so quick to call the founders of your own religion liars? Do you see how you once again asked an improper question? Your question had the incorrect assumption that the gospels were written by the apostles. That is not the case.



Sorry, I missed the link. And I thought that we were talking about the apostles, or was it martyrs in general? Yes, James the Just or James the brother of Jesus was a martyr. He was not an apostle. Let's call him Jimmy Bob. The James that was an apostle was James the son of Zebedee, or Jimmy Zeke:


James, son of Zebedee - Wikipedia

And though there is an esistle of James it is unclear which one wrote it and does not mention events during Jesus's life at all. The epistles of Peter are thought to be pseudonymous. I do not know of any books in the Bible that are now thought to have been written by eyewitnesses. No need for the writers to be liars. They only need to be repeating tales that they were told and that they believe.

I am not saying that the gospels where written by eye witnesses. At this point all I want is to understand your view.

So your view is that the apostoles never saw a risen Jesus and never claimed to have seen it. ?

What about James the brother of Jesus? According to Paul he witness the resurrection. Was Paul lying, ?did James lied to Paul? Did James had an hallucination?

 

[leroy]

Hard to say. He was definitely a loon so he may not have been lying. He may have believed the nonsense that he spewed.

Ok so we agree on something, Paul honestly and sincerly belived in the resurrection (he was not lying)

What about the rest of the witnesses? Like James the brother of jesus, the apostoles, the woman, the 500 etc.

Where they also loons? Where they lying? Where they just legends promoted by the authors of the new testament?

 

[Jollybear]

Here is your problem. You do not appear to understand what a lie is. A lie is a false statement with an intent to deceive. If one really believes the lunacy that one is spewing he is not lying. And crazy people do die for their own lunacy. There are countless examples of it and they sadly often take others with them. Another example would be David Koresh.

I agree that lying is a false statement with the intent to decieve.

I disagree that ANYONE, no exceptions, can believe the false statement IF there INTENT was to decieve, because then they would KNOW its a false statement, hence, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to believe it, hence they certainly would not put themselves in harms way and die for it.

To believe there are exceptions, THAT is CRAZY. You said crazy people believe crazy things. Ok....well, that is crazy, hence youd have to be crazy to believe there are exceptions to this, lol.

Comparing paul with jim jones and David korish is not fair because 1, they, unlike paul wer not witnesses and they died for different reasons.

And second, each one has to be examined on there own merit, jim, david, or paul.

Also that part you quoted of paul is clearly misconstrued. 1 Corinthians 7 NIV

Paul was not saying have no sex, do not marry, ect. He even told us when he was speaking his opinion vs giving the Lords command. Also, when giving his opinion, he gave it as a concession, he expressly said that to. His goal was to get people to remain focused on spiritual matters.

 

[leroy]

Your right I am sick I'm qouting some of the people mentioned in the video about Mythology, I guess I heard Neros name or Constantine and remembered wrong but I do have bronchitis.You can disregard that.

However the bible reads like fiction and there is a huge movement as demonstrated in the video above among scholars and historians who agree that the bible is mythology and so is Jesus so I believe it was written from Pagan sources. Its just my opinion.But there are many hsitorians teaching that now I am not alone.

Nobody denies that some scholars claim that Jesus never existed, but the concensus is that he did excist.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not saying that the gospels where written by eye witnesses. At this point all I want is to understand your view.

So your view is that the apostoles never saw a risen Jesus and never claimed to have seen it. ?

What about James the brother of Jesus? According to Paul he witness the resurrection. Was Paul lying, ?did James lied to Paul? Did James had an hallucination?

We do not know what the apostles believed about the resurrection. Paul called himself an apost!e, but he never saw Jesus, I do not count him as an apostle.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok so we agree on something, Paul honestly and sincerly belived in the resurrection (he was not lying)

What about the rest of the witnesses? Like James the brother of jesus, the apostoles, the woman, the 500 etc.

Where they also loons? Where they lying? Where they just legends promoted by the authors of the new testament?

There were no 500. Let's out it this way, Paul was probably both delusional and dishonest.

James the brother of Jesus said nothing about Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree that lying is a false statement with the intent to decieve.

I disagree that ANYONE, no exceptions, can believe the false statement IF there INTENT was to decieve, because then they would KNOW its a false statement, hence, it would be IMPOSSIBLE for them to believe it, hence they certainly would not put themselves in harms way and die for it.

To believe there are exceptions, THAT is CRAZY. You said crazy people believe crazy things. Ok....well, that is crazy, hence youd have to be crazy to believe there are exceptions to this, lol.

Comparing paul with jim jones and David korish is not fair because 1, they, unlike paul wer not witnesses and they died for different reasons.

And second, each one has to be examined on there own merit, jim, david, or paul.

Also that part you quoted of paul is clearly misconstrued. 1 Corinthians 7 NIV

Paul was not saying have no sex, do not marry, ect. He even told us when he was speaking his opinion vs giving the Lords command. Also, when giving his opinion, he gave it as a concession, he expressly said that to. His goal was to get people to remain focused on spiritual matters.

Paul was not a witness either. That puts him in their company.

and how was my quote of Paul misconstrued? It means what it appears to mean. No added context changes that. That appears to be what you are doing. You are struggling to change the meaning of a verse based upon Paul's incorrect beliefs. This is your cognitive dissonance trying to defend your beliefs.

 

[leroy]

There were no 500. Let's out it this way, Paul was probably both delusional and dishonest.

James the brother of Jesus said nothing about Jesus.

Ok now try to answer to my question. Lets go step by step

What about the 500 reported by Paul? Did he lied? Did someone lied to Paul ? Where the 500 hallucinating ? Was Paul quoting from a legend ?

How do you explain that , what is your "theory"? At this point you don't have to support you asertions, I simply want to understand your view

 

[leroy]

Paul was not a witness either. That puts him in their company.

and how was my quote of Paul misconstrued? It means what it appears to mean. No added context changes that. That appears to be what you are doing. You are struggling to change the meaning of a verse based upon Paul's incorrect beliefs. This is your cognitive dissonance trying to defend your beliefs.

Paul claimed to have seen the risen Jesus.

So was Paul lying or was he hallucinating? Which of the two do you consider more plausible?

Sometimes you seem to suggest that he was lying and other times you seem to suggest that he was hallucinating.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok now try to answer to my question. Lets go step by step

What about the 500 reported by Paul? Did he lied? Did someone lied to Paul ? Where the 500 hallucinating ? Was Paul quoting from a legend ?

How do you explain that , what is your "theory"? At this point you don't have to support you asertions, I simply want to understand your view

Since there is no other record of 500 people seeing Jesus, and that is the sort of thing that would be expected to be noted by others, then it is more likely that he was either lying or repeating a tall tale. Try to think rationally, it is not that hard.

 

[lukethethird]

Nobody denies that some scholars claim that Jesus never existed, but the concensus is that he did excist.

The number of people that believe does not make something true. Regarding the existence of Jesus, it's a given that the majority of Christian scholars believe. All we have from the time in question is religious texts and religious claims that follow, so it is of no wonder that the topic remains, at least for some, controversial.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Paul claimed to have seen the risen Jesus.

So was Paul lying or was he hallucinating? Which of the two do you consider more plausible?

Sometimes you seem to suggest that he was lying and other times you seem to suggest that he was hallucinating.

No, Paul's claim was that of a vision. Have you not read your Bible? Visions are another name for hallucinations.