So are you suggesting that the authors of the gospels lied?
If they said they were witnesses and include stories no one witnessed for whatever reason, I would think that counts as either lying or at least very bad writing.
New Testament says Satan deceived Eve. That never happened in Genesis.
New Testament says no one is righteous while several people in the bible are labeled exactly that.
New Testament says Jesus never sinned but included quite a few of them.
I'm willing to accept that maybe the authors just suck at their jobs. They're definitely telling falsehoods, though.
was the proclamation of the resurrection caused by a hallucination, a lie invented by the apostles, a lie invented by the authors of the books in the new testament, i a lie invented by the church? What is your view? ¿is this a valid question?
It's difficult to tell, to be honest. Per the books themselves, the apostles ran off when Jesus was arrested and only John notes just John was there at the crucifixion, at least in terms of the apostles. No other author was anywhere in the vicinity. We also have a "Jesus' twin" who could easily decide to stretch out the 15 minutes of fame for a bunch of people who were nobodies before Jesus gave them some identity. They are all quite fond of telling stories they weren't around to witness at all. And even if you argue the women were witnesses, Christianity didn't value them enough to give THEM gospels, did they? Mark supposedly wrote for Peter. Where is Mary's or Mary's or Mary's?
Since the distortions are usually not dishonest they would not qualify as lies. I would drop the black and white approach to this subject.
It's like I was watching this youtube video about veritas serum and how it really didn't matter much because the problem was, if you truly believed in what you said, you'd say that. Truth serum would only make you say what you believe to be the truth, because you're not omniscient.
That the man Jesus existed seems rather probably to me.
Even if he wasn't named Jesus at all, but Tom or Bob or something.
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
Nice dig against the actual apostles. Believe ME, not those other guys.
that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures
Except it wasn't a thing in the scriptures.
Entombed. Had he been buried, we wouldn't have this religion, most likely.
that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures
Lots of three's happen in the bible. I don't care. It means as much to me as "today was brought to you by the number three."
and that he appeared to Cephas
An arrogant troll who wanted to have as much street cred as Jesus and would do anything to promote himself.
Need to make a committee meeting so the story's straight. -- Peter
After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time
Who we won't even bother to name or give addresses so thousands of years later it can be looked up.
And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.
Because it never occurs to me that the Way is more important than an execution style that happened to thousands of people. And I will conveniently forget about everyone else in the bible who was ever dead and came back to life. And I will conveniently forget about two guys who skipped death altogether, which SHOULD make them conquerors of death way more than Jesus ever could be.
More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead."
He didn't witness it. So, yeah, he's a false witness.
If the gospels and the resurrection where legends, these legends would have had to be invented by the apostoles (Paul, Peter, James etc.)
Peter alone would be a good candidate. People who ticked him off usually ended up dead. He is characterized in both canon and noncanon texts as an arrogant jerk and a coward who is big on boasting but will run like a scared bunny.
This "vision" was not in the minds eye, nor was it hallucinatory because at the same time, the men who wer with paul when the vision happened heard the voice but saw no one, but did see the light. Plus it caused paul blindness for a time. And jesus told a guy name ananias at same period to go to paul and told him his location. Acts 9:7-11 and acts 22:6-11
Yes, people go blind if they stare at the sun for too long.
The difference, your not dying and being persecuted for your claim on elvis. Start being persecuted, whipped, imprisoned and killed for that, and i WILL BELIEVE YOU.
Do you believe anyone who dies or is tortured? Everyone in Guantanomo has Jesus beat.
Hows it poor evidence when the man went from persecuting the church to being persecuted for the church?
Note he doesn't stick around in Jerusalem, but heads out into the backwoods, so to speak, to make churches FAR from the apostles. Also, he didn't feel he SHOULD be persecuted, or he wouldn't advertise his Roman citizenship, and remember being Hellenized was about the worst thing you could be in many Jewish circles, to try to get out of it.
This is NOT the only place we read about it. We read about it from the 4 gospels, all pauls other letters, peters letters, james letters, johns, lukes and the church fathers who knew the witnesses. Also a few other sources confirming avents around the issue.
Man, I tell you what ... I once caught a fish that was thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis big....
Plus, even if paul was the only one, still, why would he go from persecuting the church to being persecuted for it?
The Romans were about to do a large crackdown on Jews. He didn't want to be a Jew anymore. Simple as pie.
So your “theory” is that Paul was some kind of lunatic guy, that wrote legends about Jesus, but then he came to believe that his own invented legends are real because he was crazy.
Or, as I said, Rome was about to do nasty things to Jews and like many Jews, decided Judaism wasn't worth their funerals.
Since he ended up believing that his invented stories where real he became a Christian and fight and died in the name of the myth of the resurrection that he himself invented.
He tried to get out of it. Why bring up Roman citizenship, which conferred certain rights, if he just wanted to die for his beliefs?
