YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Only God can make the ultimate decision, I agree.
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Jesus Said "It Is Finished"
- Thread starter Nova2216
- Start date
Nova2216
Active Member
Why begin reading in the middle of the Romans letter?
(Romans 6:3-6) come long before (Romans 10).
baptized into Jesus Christ
baptized into Jesus Christ
baptized into Jesus Christ
The Romans were already "In Christ" according to (Rom.6:3-6).
Doesn't chapter 6 come before chapter 10?
Nova2216
Active Member
11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; (1Peter 4:11)
Nova2216
Active Member
Those under the OT Law will be saved by the grace of God.
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. (Gen.6:8)
Thus did Noah according to all the Lord commanded. (Gen.6:22)
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Thank you.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Speaking of which, Jesus got baptized, didn't he?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Abraham was not under Law, was he?
Nova2216
Active Member
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. (Mt.3:15)
Nova2216
Active Member
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Yes.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
If you mean died before Jesus was on earth, then the verse applies
Hebrews 11:39-40 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised, [40] since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.
Baptism in Jesus's name did not apply until it was first issued Matthew 28:19, Acts 2:38-39.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Abraham could not have been under the law, as the law did not exist in his lifetime.
Nova2216
Active Member
The Ephesians were saved by grace just as Noah was in OT times. By doing all the Lord commanded.
(Eph.2:1-8)
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; ...
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
The Ephesians were saved in (Acts 19:1-6).
They were baptized in water twice.
rrobs
Well-Known Member
Yes! And Jesus baptized in holy spirit. Now you have it.
Nova2216
Active Member
(Rom.6:3-6) says nothing about a Holy Spirit Baptism.
You have just added to the text -
"And Jesus baptized in holy spirit"
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. (Deut.4:2)
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev.22:18,19)
Nova2216
Active Member
I posted (Romans 6:3-6) where it says one is Baptized INTO CHRIST and you agreed.
One is only saved if they have been baptized into Christ (2Tim.2:10) (Rom.6:3-6).
So BEFORE one is baptized into Christ they are lost.
Notice if you will one is BURIED INTO SOMETHING and then RAISED UP OUT OF IT.
If this means one is baptized into the Spirit then one is just as quick RAISED UP OUT OF the Spirit. Please tell me what good that would do?
Water fits this text perfectly (Rom.6:3-6) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Acts 8:38).
A person can be BURIED IN WATER and RAISED UP OUT OF WATER. Though man cannot die upon a cross physically he can repent of his sins and die to his old lifestyle (old man of sin) and through obeying the gospel (being immersed in water) become a new creature (2Cor.5:17) (2Thess.1:7-9). The new birth or new creation only happens after this burial and raising up out of water.(Rom.6:3-6).
The gospel is something men do (Mt 7:21) (Jn 7:17) (Jn 3:21).
If one contends that this is a Holy Spirit Baptism (Not Water Baptism) here is what you would have.
The person is buried in the Holy Spirit an then he is raised up out of the Spirit. Please tell me what good that would do?
Another point is that some claim they were baptized into Christ 2000 years ago.
How did this happen before they were ever born or before they ever sinned?
That cannot be explained logically.
If one has NOT EVER SINNED they are right with God (PS.139:14).
No one is BORN IN SIN according to (Ezekiel 18:20).
Babies are born innocent.
I am fearfully and wonderfully made. (Ps.134:14) -
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (Ezek.18:20-24).
Thanks
rrobs
Well-Known Member
I guess you crossed out Luke 3:16 and Acts 1:5 from your Bible? Wouldn't Rev 22:19 apply to you?
Actually it wouldn't. Revelation is God's final dealing with the Jews, His completer fulfillment of the promises He made to them in the OT. As a born again son of God you have already passed judgment and been found as righteous as God Himself (Rom 3:22). You will have been gathered together with Christ and will be with him forevermore before the events of Revelation begin (1 Thess 4:13-19) so no worries for either you or me. I guess that brings us back to the original topic, i.e. Jesus did a complete job when he said, "it is finished." Our salvation was secured at that moment. Of course if people want to add to their salvation, it won't hurt (at least not in the overall scheme of things). It won't help, but it won't hurt, so go for it if you want.
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rrobs
Well-Known Member
I think you may be over analyzing the whole buried into something and raised up out of it. I'm not the one who said Jesus would baptize, not in water, but in holy spirit. Ask him what good it would do if you don't believe me.
If you research the word "baptism" you will discover that it simply means to be immersed in something. There is no inherent media in which something is immersed within the word itself. Christians tend to think water, but that is not how the word is always used. Under the definition of "baptism" on page 54 of his Encylopedia of Religion, Virgillios Ferm said (speaking of other religions),
"Because of their peculiar virtues, wine, oil, honey, blood, and cow's urine are sometimes used."
You must consider all verses on a given subject, to whom or about whom they were written, and when they were written in order to rightly divide God's word. You must also consider the overall context and message of the scriptures themselves. Obviously a main theme are the changes that the death and resurrection of Jesus effected. One of them was the media in which we are baptized. It went from water to holy spirit. It's really quite simple. As God said somewhere in the OT regarding the simplicity of His word, "not even a fool need error therein."
God bless