Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

[rrobs]

@rrobs - the "end-all" is eternal life.
Isaiah 65:17,18 encapsulates it:

"For behold, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind. But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I create"

Have a good night.

How could any Christian have a bad night or day knowing what's ahead? Thanks.

 

[e.r.m.]

How could any Christian have a bad night or day knowing what's ahead? Thanks.

2 Corinthians 1:8-9 For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life: [9] But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

 

[rrobs]

* Each and every conversion in the NT period must harmonize with (Acts 22:16).

If not, that person is not saved.

Yes, all verses on a given subject must harmonize.

As you correctly pointed out, Acts 22:16 says our sins are forgiven by washing in water. But what about these verses?

Eph 1:7,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;​

Col 1:14,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:​

Rev 1:5,

And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
​

Both Paul and John say blood whereas Luke says water. What do we do with that?

I solve the problem by acknowledging that Acts is a transition book as well realizing that, while everything in the scriptures actually happened, not all those happenings were necessarily what God wanted.

What's your solution?

God bless.

 

[Nova2216]

Yes, all verses on a given subject must harmonize.

As you correctly pointed out, Acts 22:16 says our sins are forgiven by washing in water. But what about these verses?

Eph 1:7,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;​

Col 1:14,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:​

Rev 1:5,

And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
​

Both Paul and John say blood whereas Luke says water. What do we do with that?

I solve the problem by acknowledging that Acts is a transition book as well realizing that, while everything in the scriptures actually happened, not all those happenings were necessarily what God wanted.

What's your solution?

God bless.

"Man cannot comprehend the existence of error, when to deeply immersed in it."

 

[Nova2216]

Yes, all verses on a given subject must harmonize.

As you correctly pointed out, Acts 22:16 says our sins are forgiven by washing in water. But what about these verses?

Eph 1:7,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;​

Col 1:14,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:​

Rev 1:5,

And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
​

Both Paul and John say blood whereas Luke says water. What do we do with that?

I solve the problem by acknowledging that Acts is a transition book as well realizing that, while everything in the scriptures actually happened, not all those happenings were necessarily what God wanted.

What's your solution?

God bless.

* We know the word of God does NOT contradict itself (Ps.119:160).

160 ¶ Thy word is TRUE from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.

So anytime two verses SEEM TO CONTRADICT the problem usually lies in TWO AREAS.


1. It could be figurative language rather than literal.


2. Our understanding of those verses are incorrect.

In the case of (Acts 22:16) (Eph.1:7) (Col.1:14) (Rev.1:5) YOUR UNDERSTANDING of these verses is incorrect.

In your mind THEY OPPOSE ONE ANOTHER and THEY DO NOT.

You have been taught that (Acts) does not mean what it says.

You discount many of the teachings found in the book of Acts by discounting the whole book by saying it is a transitional book.

THE SOLUTION - Men who obey the will of God are cleansed by the blood of Christ when immersed in water (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40) (Mark 16:15,16) (1Peter1:22,23).

Men do not usually disagree on WHAT cleanses the sins of men.

They disagree on WHEN the blood of Jesus cleanses sins.

Many REFUSE to answer WHEN their sins are forgiven b/c they know the word of God clearly defines WHEN that happens.

That is what you have been doing refusing to answer.

 

[Nova2216]

Yes, all verses on a given subject must harmonize.

As you correctly pointed out, Acts 22:16 says our sins are forgiven by washing in water. But what about these verses?

Eph 1:7,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;​

Col 1:14,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:​

Rev 1:5,

And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
​

Both Paul and John say blood whereas Luke says water. What do we do with that?

I solve the problem by acknowledging that Acts is a transition book as well realizing that, while everything in the scriptures actually happened, not all those happenings were necessarily what God wanted.

What's your solution?

God bless.

* (Heb.9:10,11)

The washing of hands (in water) before going into the tabernacle to sprinkle the blood over the mercy seat was to prepare those of us in the NT times to accept baptism (in water) INTO CHRIST (Gal.3:27) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Mark 16:16).

Without being IN CHRIST there is no salvation (2Tim.2:10)

How does one get INTO CHRIST?

(Gal 3:27) (Rom.6:3-6) (1Peter 1:22,23) (1Peter 3:20,21)

Baptized Into Christ
Baptized Into Christ
Baptized Into Christ


You and I cannot be saved by two different methods ---> PERIOD.

1. Rob - Saved by Holy Spirit Baptism

2. Nova - Saved by Water Immersion

This cannot be done b/c of what (1Cor.1:10) and (Phil.3:16) teaches.

Many people think I am teaching water baptism alone saves.

No I AM NOT!!!

I have never used the word "ALONE" when it comes to baptism, but that is what people THINK I am teaching.




Thanks

 

[rrobs]

* (Heb.9:10,11)

The washing of hands (in water) before going into the tabernacle to sprinkle the blood over the mercy seat was to prepare those of us in the NT times to accept baptism (in water) INTO CHRIST (Gal.3:27) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Mark 16:16).

Without being IN CHRIST there is no salvation (2Tim.2:10)

How does one get INTO CHRIST?

(Gal 3:27) (Rom.6:3-6) (1Peter 1:22,23) (1Peter 3:20,21)

Baptized Into Christ
Baptized Into Christ
Baptized Into Christ

You and I cannot be saved by two different methods ---> PERIOD.

1. Rob - Saved by Holy Spirit Baptism

2. Nova - Saved by Water Immersion

This cannot be done b/c of what (1Cor.1:10) and (Phil.3:16) teaches.

Many people think I am teaching water baptism alone saves.

No I AM NOT!!!

I have never used the word "ALONE" when it comes to baptism, but that is what people THINK I am teaching.

Thanks

No, you have not ever used the word "alone" in any of your posts. I guess I missed that, but now that you pointed it our I can see it.

Anyway, I know how we can see if water is necessary or not. But it'll take some time. As I understand things, you have been baptized in both water and holy spirit, and I have only been baptized in holy spirit. When Jesus comes back, if you don't see me then you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that water was necessary. All I can say is I sure hope you are wrong and you and I can talk about it in the revamped Garden of Eden.

God bless.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

No, you have not ever used the word "alone" in any of your posts. I guess I missed that, but now that you pointed it our I can see it.

Anyway, I know how we can see if water is necessary or not. But it'll take some time. As I understand things, you have been baptized in both water and holy spirit, and I have only been baptized in holy spirit. When Jesus comes back, if you don't see me then you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that water was necessary. All I can say is I sure hope you are wrong and you and I can talk about it in the revamped Garden of Eden.

God bless.

This may be a foolish question but I really do not know. Can you tell me exactly when where and how you were baptized in holy spirit? I can understand water baptism because you have to have water and there is a certain time when you go into the water. But I do not understand how you get some holy spirit to get baptized in.

 

[Nova2216]

No, you have not ever used the word "alone" in any of your posts. I guess I missed that, but now that you pointed it our I can see it.

Anyway, I know how we can see if water is necessary or not. But it'll take some time. As I understand things, you have been baptized in both water and holy spirit, and I have only been baptized in holy spirit. When Jesus comes back, if you don't see me then you will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that water was necessary. All I can say is I sure hope you are wrong and you and I can talk about it in the revamped Garden of Eden.

God bless.

There is only one baptism (Eph.4:5).

Choose one.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

 

[rrobs]

There is only one baptism (Eph.4:5).

Choose one.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

Let me see...baptism in water or holy spirit...which should I choose?

1. Well, when the water finally dries, I'm left with nothing but maybe cleaner skin or clothes. But holy spirit will never leave.
2. Water doesn't give me any spiritual ability but holy spirit gives me the power to do the same things Jesus did, and more.
3. Water is an outside job whereas holy spirit is an inside job.
4. Another person baptizes me in water whereas Jesus himself baptizes me in holy spirit.
5. John baptized in water, but Jesus baptizes in holy spirit. John is dead but Jesus is alive and well.

Considering the above, I feel compelled to accept baptism in holy spirit as my road to salvation. But I do understand the pull of tradition and would never fault any Christian who wants to be baptized in water.

 

[rrobs]

This may be a foolish question but I really do not know. Can you tell me exactly when where and how you were baptized in holy spirit? I can understand water baptism because you have to have water and there is a certain time when you go into the water. But I do not understand how you get some holy spirit to get baptized in.

Baptism in holy spirit occurs when a person is born again.

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
​

I know it is usually taught that baptism in holy spirit it is a special gift given to a select few, but that is contrary to Acts 2:38 and many other verses.

1Cor 12:3,

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
​

If you've made Jesus your lord (boss), and I assume you have, then you must have done so by holy spirit. There is no other way.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Baptism in holy spirit occurs when a person is born again.

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
​

I know it is usually taught that baptism in holy spirit it is a special gift given to a select few, but that is contrary to Acts 2:38 and many other verses.

1Cor 12:3,

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
​

If you've made Jesus your lord (boss), and I assume you have, then you must have done so by holy spirit. There is no other way.

John 3:6 says that which is born of the spirit IS spirit. If you can look in a mirror and see yourself, then you are flesh. But if you are born of the spirit, you will BE spirit and not see yourself in a mirror. Can you see yourself? Doesn't "born again" mean born to new spirit life at the ressarecction? Since Christ has not returned and there has been no ressarecction, is anyone really "born again"? Or is it something to look forward to? A reason to hope for Christ's return so we may be born to a new spirit life with him in his kingdom.

 

[Nova2216]

Let me see...baptism in water or holy spirit...which should I choose?

1. Well, when the water finally dries, I'm left with nothing but maybe cleaner skin or clothes. But holy spirit will never leave.
2. Water doesn't give me any spiritual ability but holy spirit gives me the power to do the same things Jesus did, and more.
3. Water is an outside job whereas holy spirit is an inside job.
4. Another person baptizes me in water whereas Jesus himself baptizes me in holy spirit.
5. John baptized in water, but Jesus baptizes in holy spirit. John is dead but Jesus is alive and well.

Considering the above, I feel compelled to accept baptism in holy spirit as my road to salvation. But I do understand the pull of tradition and would never fault any Christian who wants to be baptized in water.

Rob - "I feel"

Nova - No Sir, What does the bible say?

If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; (1Peter 4:11)


Where are "all men" commanded to be baptized in the Holy Spirit?

Not Jesus

Not the apostles.

The world (you and I)

How do I obey the Holy Spirit baptism?

How can I know I have been Holy Spirit baptized?

Where are "all men" commanded to be Holy Spirit baptized?


I can point our verses which command men to baptize WHOSOEVER (all who will do so).

(Mt.28:18-20) (Mark 16:15,16)


(Eph.4:5) points to water baptism as the one baptism.

So does (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40).

Ac 8:35 Then Philip ... preached unto him Jesus.
36 ... See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?... 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.39 And when they were come up out of the water,


That pretty much settles it.



(Acts 28:24) - Ac 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.


I can tell you are trying to deal with this topic and I appreciate your effort.


You or no one else can do one miracle so why don't you just admit it?





Thanks

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Let me see...baptism in water or holy spirit...which should I choose?

1. Well, when the water finally dries, I'm left with nothing but maybe cleaner skin or clothes. But holy spirit will never leave.
2. Water doesn't give me any spiritual ability but holy spirit gives me the power to do the same things Jesus did, and more.
3. Water is an outside job whereas holy spirit is an inside job.
4. Another person baptizes me in water whereas Jesus himself baptizes me in holy spirit.
5. John baptized in water, but Jesus baptizes in holy spirit. John is dead but Jesus is alive and well.

Considering the above, I feel compelled to accept baptism in holy spirit as my road to salvation. But I do understand the pull of tradition and would never fault any Christian who wants to be baptized in water.

Holy spirit gives you the power to do what Jesus did? I want to come to your next party and watch you turn water into wine. And I am sure your local hospital can use some help healing the sick.

 

[Nova2216]

Baptism in holy spirit occurs when a person is born again.

Acts 2:38,

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
​

I know it is usually taught that baptism in holy spirit it is a special gift given to a select few, but that is contrary to Acts 2:38 and many other verses.

1Cor 12:3,

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
​

If you've made Jesus your lord (boss), and I assume you have, then you must have done so by holy spirit. There is no other way.

*Lets ASSUME I agree that (Acts 2:38) refers to Holy Spirit baptism.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repent + Baptism for remission of sins = Receive Holy Spirit

Do you agree that sins are not forgiven until one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit?


Not 2000 yrs ago with Christ
Not at belief
Not at Confession
Not at Repentance





And if one is baptized into the Holy Spirit, then WHY does (Acts 2:38) say after baptism you will receive the Holy Spirit


You have many problems with the scriptures if you pick Holy Spirit baptism as the one baptism of (Eph.4:5).




If you are Pentecostal I know they baptize people in water.

Are you being honest with me on this point?

I asked you if the church you attend baptized in water?

That would make TWO baptisms.

1. Holy Spirit Baptism

2. Water baptism

 

[rrobs]

John 3:6 says that which is born of the spirit IS spirit. If you can look in a mirror and see yourself, then you are flesh. But if you are born of the spirit, you will BE spirit and not see yourself in a mirror. Can you see yourself? Doesn't "born again" mean born to new spirit life at the ressarecction? Since Christ has not returned and there has been no ressarecction, is anyone really "born again"? Or is it something to look forward to? A reason to hope for Christ's return so we may be born to a new spirit life with him in his kingdom.

When I answered you the first time, it was under the impression you didn't know something and asked for my advice. Now I think I am seeing that you do know, so I'm not sure why you asked me.

Holy spirit gives you the power to do what Jesus did? I want to come to your next party and watch you turn water into wine. And I am sure your local hospital can use some help healing the sick.

John 14:12,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
​

That's a pretty straight forward assertion. About an 8th grade reading level. So is it true or false? If true, you need to change your thinking about parties and hospitals. If false, it really doesn't matter.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

When I answered you the first time, it was under the impression you didn't know something and asked for my advice. Now I think I am seeing that you do know, so I'm not sure why you asked me.

John 14:12,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
​

That's a pretty straight forward assertion. About an 8th grade reading level. So is it true or false? If true, you need to change your thinking about parties and hospitals. If false, it really doesn't matter.

I think if it is true, I need to see some examples of great works you or anyone else has done.

 

[Nova2216]

John 3:6 says that which is born of the spirit IS spirit. If you can look in a mirror and see yourself, then you are flesh. But if you are born of the spirit, you will BE spirit and not see yourself in a mirror. Can you see yourself? Doesn't "born again" mean born to new spirit life at the ressarecction? Since Christ has not returned and there has been no ressarecction, is anyone really "born again"? Or is it something to look forward to? A reason to hope for Christ's return so we may be born to a new spirit life with him in his kingdom.

*No, being born again does NOT mean what you say it means.

In (Jn 3:3-5) Jesus was telling Nicodemus he too could be born again.

So what is being born again?

It is Jesus calling sinners out of the world and into the kingdom (or church).

Col.1:13 - does a great job of describing being born again.

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Notice some were TRANSLATED INTO THE KINGDOM in the first century.


This means the kingdom (or church) was established in the first century.


To be born again is to be a Christian (Acts 2:38 ;22:16).

To be a Christian is to glorify God in a certain lifestyle.

To be a Christian is to be a new Creature (2Cor.5:17)

To be a Christian is to be IN CHRIST.

To be IN CHRIST (or in the kingdom or church) is to be saved (2Tim.2:10) (Acts 2:38,47).

All the saved are located in the kingdom (or church of our Lord) (Acts 2:47).


How does the sinner get INTO CHRIST? (or in the kingdom or church)

(Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6)

Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)
Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)
Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)



Thanks

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

*No, being born again does NOT mean what you say it means.

In (Jn 3:3-5) Jesus was telling Nicodemus he too could be born again.

So what is being born again?

It is Jesus calling sinners out of the world and into the kingdom (or church).

Col.1:13 - does a great job of describing being born again.

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Notice some were TRANSLATED INTO THE KINGDOM in the first century.


This means the kingdom (or church) was established in the first century.


To be born again is to be a Christian (Acts 2:38 ;22:16).

To be a Christian is to glorify God in a certain lifestyle.

To be a Christian is to be a new Creature (2Cor.5:17)

To be a Christian is to be IN CHRIST.

To be IN CHRIST (or in the kingdom or church) is to be saved (2Tim.2:10) (Acts 2:38,47).

All the saved are located in the kingdom (or church of our Lord) (Acts 2:47).


How does the sinner get INTO CHRIST? (or in the kingdom or church)

(Gal.3:27) (Rom.6:3-6)

Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)
Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)
Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)



Thanks

I am afraid you did not reply to the meaning of John 3:6 That which is born of the spirit IS spirit. What does the word "IS" mean? If you can see yourself in a mirror then you are born of the flesh and ARE flesh. But if you ARE spirit you could not see yourself in a mirror. You are NOT spirit and so can NOT be born of the spirit. We will be "born again" when Christ returns and raises us to a new spirit life. Sorry all you who think you are born again. If you are not a spirit then the Bible says you are not born of the spirit. Doesn't matter what you or your minister or religion might say. The Bible says otherwise.

 

[Nova2216]

I am afraid you did not reply to the meaning of John 3:6 That which is born of the spirit IS spirit. What does the word "IS" mean? If you can see yourself in a mirror then you are born of the flesh and ARE flesh. But if you ARE spirit you could not see yourself in a mirror. You are NOT spirit and so can NOT be born of the spirit. We will be "born again" when Christ returns and raises us to a new spirit life. Sorry all you who think you are born again. If you are not a spirit then the Bible says you are not born of the spirit. Doesn't matter what you or your minister or religion might say. The Bible says otherwise.

Christians (born again people) were told to -

(2Cor.3:18) -

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(KJV)

I think he was referring to a mirror when he said GLASS.


Your understanding of (Jn 3) is incorrect.

Your understanding of WHEN the Lords kingdom was to be established in incorrect. Check out (Isa.2:1-5) (Joel 2:28) (Acts 2:16,17) (Jer.31:31-34) (Luke 16:16), etc.

Notice what (Luke 16:16) says.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

(Acts 2:38,47) (Col.1:13) and (Luke 16:16) claim the kingdom of Christ (the church) not only was in existence in the first century but people were being added to it

NOT SOME 2000 yrs later.