Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

[lostwanderingsoul]

Actually those who would be responsible are those ancestors who long ago should have taught their children about God and His ways (Jn 6:44,45) (Jn 3:19-21) (1Jn 2:3-6). God made this world and then provided a plan for all to be saved. Sadly many reject truth (Jn 12:48). That which they reject is the only thing which has the power to save them (Jn 17:17) (Rom.1:16) (1Peter 1:22,23).

God is JUST. He is not going to save some people one way and save other people another way.

God is no respecter of persons (Rom.2:11)

So again sometimes it is hard to understand your answers. Maybe I am dumb. I don't know. Just give me "yes" or "no". The only way to be saved is to "believe in Jesus". But many people have never heard of Jesus. This includes everyone who lived more than 2000 years ago and many who live in places where mo one knows about Jesus. These people have no chance to avoid eternal torture? Simply yes or no. Quoting scripture does not answer. I want your beliefs, not quoting verses. Yes or no?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

The blood of Jesus went both ways on the cross (OT / NT).

Noah was saved by grace by doing all the lord commanded him (Gen.6:8,22).

The Ephesians were saved by grace by being baptized in water like the Lord commanded (Acts 19:1-6) (Mt.28:18-20) (Mark 16:16) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Gal.3:27)

So it is not necessary to believe in Jesus. Noah never heard of Jesus but he was saved. So there are exceptions and when there are exceptions then the rules do not apply to all and fall apart.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I'm sure Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are ok.

I feel so much better because you feel this way.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

He's God, I'm not.

But the work of the church is to do God's work and as part of the church each person must do their share. Or are church members supposed to just sit in church every week and then forget about God the rest of the week?

 

[e.r.m.]

So it is not necessary to believe in Jesus. Noah never heard of Jesus but he was saved. So there are exceptions and when there are exceptions then the rules do not apply to all and fall apart.

Ex post facto.

Trying to find exemptions?

 

[e.r.m.]

But the work of the church is to do God's work and as part of the church each person must do their share.

Correct. None of which is to "be God".

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Ex post facto.

Trying to find exemptions?

Trying to understand your beliefs. Care to share?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Correct. None of which is to "be God".

Sounds like a "one hour a week Christian".

 

[Nova2216]

So it is not necessary to believe in Jesus. Noah never heard of Jesus but he was saved. So there are exceptions and when there are exceptions then the rules do not apply to all and fall apart.

They believed and obeyed God under the OT Law.

One is only subject to the law they live under.

Many people do not realize there is a difference between the OT times and those of us who are living in the NT times.

The cross of Christ stands as the dividing marker between the OT (10 commandments) times and the NT (NT Law / commands of Christ). (Luke 16:16) (Heb. 7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10)

Those under the NT Law of Christ must believe and obey Christ commands to be saved. (Heb.5:8,9) (Rom.8:2) (Gal.6:2) (Jas.1:25)

 

[Nova2216]

So again sometimes it is hard to understand your answers. Maybe I am dumb. I don't know. Just give me "yes" or "no". The only way to be saved is to "believe in Jesus". But many people have never heard of Jesus. This includes everyone who lived more than 2000 years ago and many who live in places where mo one knows about Jesus. These people have no chance to avoid eternal torture? Simply yes or no. Quoting scripture does not answer. I want your beliefs, not quoting verses. Yes or no?

Your question cannot be correctly answered by a YES or NO answer.

Friend, if you do not want Gods answer you are talking to the wrong person.

It seems as though you are trying to force me to giving you the answer YOU WANT.

I hope I am wrong.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

They believed and obeyed God under the OT Law.

One is only subject to the law they live under.

Many people do not realize there is a difference between the OT times and those of us who are living in the NT times.

The cross of Christ stands as the dividing marker between the OT (10 commandments) times and the NT (NT Law / commands of Christ). (Luke 16:16) (Heb. 7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10)

Those under the NT Law of Christ must believe and obey Christ commands to be saved. (Heb.5:8,9) (Rom.8:2) (Gal.6:2) (Jas.1:25)

Thank you. That was very clear and I see your point. So the subject turns to people born 500 years ago in China or India or Africa. They had no way to hear about Jesus and so could not possibly believe in him or follow the NT which they also never heard of. Is it fair for them to be punished for something they never knew about?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Your question cannot be correctly answered by a YES or NO answer.

Friend, if you do not want Gods answer you are talking to the wrong person.

It seems as though you are trying to force me to giving you the answer YOU WANT.

I hope I am wrong.

No I am not trying to force anything. I am trying to understand YOUR belief. Are people who never had a chance to follow the NT or believe in Jesus still going to be punished for that? Do YOU BELIEVE they will be punished or not? And if so how does that compare with the verse that says God is not willing that any should perish? If he does not want anyone to perish it seems everyone must have an equal chance to understand what is needed to be saved. People who never heard of Jesus or the NT would not have that chance.

 

[Nova2216]

Was there a gospel before the time of Christ? If the gospel saves then everyone before the time of Christ is lost. Is that what you believe? Your answers are never "yes" or "no". I do not see what Jesus going willingly to the cross has to do with the fate of people who never heard of him.

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins (Mt.26:28)


2.he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world....

How do we today contact the blood of Christ?

3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[Nova2216]

Thank you. That was very clear and I see your point. So the subject turns to people born 500 years ago in China or India or Africa. They had no way to hear about Jesus and so could not possibly believe in him or follow the NT which they also never heard of. Is it fair for them to be punished for something they never knew about?

De 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

 

[Nova2216]

De 6:1 ¶ Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4 ¶ Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

 

[e.r.m.]

Sounds like a "one hour a week Christian".

I don't see how you can get that from what I said unless you have a predetermined point of view that filters whatever I say.

 

[e.r.m.]

Trying to understand your beliefs. Care to share?

What does ex post facto mean?

 

[Nova2216]

No I am not trying to force anything. I am trying to understand YOUR belief. Are people who never had a chance to follow the NT or believe in Jesus still going to be punished for that? Do YOU BELIEVE they will be punished or not? And if so how does that compare with the verse that says God is not willing that any should perish? If he does not want anyone to perish it seems everyone must have an equal chance to understand what is needed to be saved. People who never heard of Jesus or the NT would not have that chance.

Your question ASSUMES they never had a chance.

You are not considering that if their parents (ancestors) had taught them truth they very well may be following the Lord and His ways today.

Your question on this topic sounds much like the argument that a 50 year old man in the hospital dying of cancer had no chance to be baptized for the remission of his sins.What about the 50 years that man lived before he ended up in the hospital? Did the man have a chance to obey God during those 50 years?

YES

Every religious discussion proves doctrine does matter.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Your question ASSUMES they never had a chance.

You are not considering that if their parents (ancestors) had taught them truth they very well may be following the Lord and His ways today.

Your question on this topic sounds much like the argument that a 50 year old man in the hospital dying of cancer had no chance to be baptized for the remission of his sins.What about the 50 years that man lived before he ended up in the hospital? Did the man have a chance to obey God during those 50 years?

YES

Every religious discussion proves doctrine does matter.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Let me try one more time please. You talk about their parents teaching them. Let's think about a person born in China 1000 years ago. Neither that person nor his parents nor other ancestors ever heard about Jesus or anything in the New Testament. Probably not Old Testament either. Everyone says there is no name except Jesus that can save you. This person and all his ancestors never heard of Jesus or the NT. He has no chance to be saved. A loving God who is not willing that any should perish seems very willing that this person should perish because he never heard of Jesus or the NT or was never baptized. I do not believe God would be that unfair. I hope you do not think God is that unfair.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

What does ex post facto mean?

So your beliefs are "after the fact". An interesting concept.