Jesus says, I Am He

[YoursTrue]

I do hope you had a good rest. I must have misunderstood your position when I read your post.

And you are so right, Isaiah 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land" so looking forward to the future!

Perhaps you did not misunderstand how I view John 1:1 and other references that seem to say (but not in the entire sense) that Jesus is God. Because Jesus himself said he has a God. Do you remember that?

 

[Kenny]

Perhaps you did not misunderstand how I view John 1:1 and other references that seem to say (but not in the entire sense) that Jesus is God. Because Jesus himself said he has a God. Do you remember that?

Ok.... lol... threw me for another loop. (not complaining) Yes... but as I said before, it was when He came down as a man. Before beings a man, He was The Word - He was God and not a god.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ok.... lol... threw me for another loop. (not complaining) Yes... but as I said before, it was when He came down as a man. Before beings a man, He was The Word - He was God and not a god.

lol ok here's a loop...right, sure in other words oh never mind. Two in heaven. One came to the earth. Not equal. Never mind. Have a great day.

 

[Kenny]

lol ok here's a loop...right, sure in other words oh never mind. Two in heaven. One came to the earth. Not equal. Never mind. Have a great day.

That was quick.

When you die, your body is in the ground (earth) and the other parts are somewhere else separate, but... never mind.

When I said "loop" - I didn't mean "never mind". I was looped because first I thought you said he wasn't God, I gave scriptures and you said he was, and then it seemed like you are saying he isn't.

That is what through me for a loop.

 

[YoursTrue]

That was quick.

When you die, your body is in the ground (earth) and the other parts are somewhere else separate, but... never mind.

When I said "loop" - I didn't mean "never mind". I was looped because first I thought you said he wasn't God, I gave scriptures and you said he was, and then it seemed like you are saying he isn't.

That is what through me for a loop.

OK. (thank you btw for explaining) I think at this point we need first to go over what the word "god" (or God, depending on whatever) means before we get into a 'you say this, I say that' discussion. I will soon start discussing this, I hope. In other words, what does the word 'god' mean? It's a word connected to description. Naturally there are religions that have gods not the "God" of the Bible, however. So rather than argue about God, god, was God, was "a" God (or god), I think we need to define the word god.

 

[YoursTrue]

That was quick.

When you die, your body is in the ground (earth) and the other parts are somewhere else separate, but... never mind.

...

Yes, never mind. (For now...)

 

[Kenny]

OK. (thank you btw for explaining) I think at this point we need first to go over what the word "god" (or God, depending on whatever) means before we get into a 'you say this, I say that' discussion. I will soon start discussing this, I hope. In other words, what does the word 'god' mean? It's a word connected to description. Naturally there are religions that have gods not the "God" of the Bible, however. So rather than argue about God, god, was God, was "a" God (or god), I think we need to define the word god.

That would be fine. Just to jump in... There is God - as in Creator. And there are gods as in John 10:34 Jesus answered them,Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? - as in ruling in the stead of God - and there are false gods, gods that would like to thinks they are or want to be like God but have no legal authority like Satan, the god of this world.

Side note... of course there is a debate on whether the Word is a god or God.

 

[cataway]

a God that bow's to another God is no God. Jesus ,in which ever form ,pre earth ,earth ,after earth . answers to his God . its the most high God's headship arrangement .

 

[YoursTrue]

That would be fine. Just to jump in... There is God - as in Creator. And there are gods as in John 10:34 Jesus answered them,Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? - as in ruling in the stead of God - and there are false gods, gods that would like to thinks they are or want to be like God but have no legal authority like Satan, the god of this world.

Side note... of course there is a debate on whether the Word is a god or God.

OK, the word 'god,' what does the word god mean? Let's talk about that first, because it is essential to understand this. The Bible says this at Exodus 34: for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, 16and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods."
This tells me that the LORD God (LORD in capital letters as you probably know is really the cover-over for YHWH, or Jehovah) of the nation of Israel acknowledges that the nations around the Israelites were not worshipping Him, but had their own gods. Verse 15 itself says the other nations had their gods, which were not Him. How do you feel about those instructions given as recorded in Exodus 34 to the Israelites about other gods, Ken? Did the Lord God (Jehovah) tell the Israelites not to worship other gods? (I distinctly left off a capital G.)

 

[YoursTrue]

That would be fine. Just to jump in... There is God - as in Creator. And there are gods as in John 10:34 Jesus answered them,Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? - as in ruling in the stead of God - and there are false gods, gods that would like to thinks they are or want to be like God but have no legal authority like Satan, the god of this world.

Side note... of course there is a debate on whether the Word is a god or God.

Correct. But to say that Jesus is connected in a triune arrangement of 3 equal gods in one god does not add up To me. I see some people defend it to the nth degree. But then go into compilations of how Jesus was god/man not equal in the flesh, etc. And debate other things about the "equality" of three persons. So again -- to understand what worship is and what god means in its complexity, because even all the Israelites did not believe that YHWH wanted exclusive worship since they would go after "foreign gods." I guess they didn't believe Jehovah, as if elohim means three? You think? (almost kidding, not quite) Oh well, it does get a little complicated (for some). We can go into that discussion of God or a God or god later on, hopefully.

 

[YoursTrue]

That would be fine. Just to jump in... There is God - as in Creator. And there are gods as in John 10:34 Jesus answered them,Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? - as in ruling in the stead of God - and there are false gods, gods that would like to thinks they are or want to be like God but have no legal authority like Satan, the god of this world.

Side note... of course there is a debate on whether the Word is a god or God.

I don't have a debate in my mind about that, whether the Word is a god or God. Because -- God means one thing to me: the God and Father of Jesus. But, of course, there are little variants of understanding that in context.

 

[YoursTrue]

That would be fine. Just to jump in... There is God - as in Creator. And there are gods as in John 10:34 Jesus answered them,Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? - as in ruling in the stead of God - and there are false gods, gods that would like to thinks they are or want to be like God but have no legal authority like Satan, the god of this world.

Side note... of course there is a debate on whether the Word is a god or God.

Just came across this scripture and thought of the conversation about god, God, or who is he? Psalm 97:9 - "For You, LORD, are most high above all the earth; You are exalted far above all gods." Sooo - could be Jesus knew this when he spoke of gods as recorded in another psalm he was quoting to those judging him?

 

[Kenny]

OK, the word 'god,' what does the word god mean? Let's talk about that first, because it is essential to understand this. The Bible says this at Exodus 34: for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), 15lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, 16and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods."
This tells me that the LORD God (LORD in capital letters as you probably know is really the cover-over for YHWH, or Jehovah) of the nation of Israel acknowledges that the nations around the Israelites were not worshipping Him, but had their own gods. Verse 15 itself says the other nations had their gods, which were not Him. How do you feel about those instructions given as recorded in Exodus 34 to the Israelites about other gods, Ken? Did the Lord God (Jehovah) tell the Israelites not to worship other gods? (I distinctly left off a capital G.)

I am wholeheartedly in agreement with these statements!

Need time to address your other statements after.

 

[Kenny]

Correct. But to say that Jesus is connected in a triune arrangement of 3 equal gods in one god does not add up To me. I see some people defend it to the nth degree. But then go into compilations of how Jesus was god/man not equal in the flesh, etc. And debate other things about the "equality" of three persons. So again -- to understand what worship is and what god means in its complexity, because even all the Israelites did not believe that YHWH wanted exclusive worship since they would go after "foreign gods." I guess they didn't believe Jehovah, as if elohim means three? You think? (almost kidding, not quite) Oh well, it does get a little complicated (for some). We can go into that discussion of God or a God or god later on, hopefully.

Yes... we can leave that for later. But we do agree that no one comes to the Father but through Jesus and that Jesus is the propitiation of our sins.

 

[metis]

But to say that Jesus is connected in a triune arrangement of 3 equal gods in one god does not add up To me.

The Trinitarian concept does not posit "3 equal gods". Instead, Catholicism at least posits One God with Jesus and the Holy Spirit being of the "essence" of God.

 

[YoursTrue]

The Trinitarian concept does not posit "3 equal gods". Instead, Catholicism at least posits One God with Jesus and the Holy Spirit being of the "essence" of God.

three equal persons then? Said to each be God yet one God?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes... we can leave that for later. But we do agree that no one comes to the Father but through Jesus and that Jesus is the propitiation of our sins.

Yes, we can agree on that. I think

 

[Kenny]

Just came across this scripture and thought of the conversation about god, God, or who is he? Psalm 97:9 - "For You, LORD, are most high above all the earth; You are exalted far above all gods." Sooo - could be Jesus knew this when he spoke of gods as recorded in another psalm he was quoting to those judging him?

Yes... I like Psalm 82 (a mind boggler)

82:1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

God (Capital - Eloyhim) - refers to YHWH - yet there were gods (also eloyhim).

Yet, Jesus, the apostles and the writers of the new testament didn't have a problem with that verse. Jesus, of course, knew and understood these versus.

 

[metis]

three equal persons then? Said to each be God yet one God?

"Essence" does not conjure up being equal at the literal level but only at the subjective level.

Without understanding "essence" and what it implies, then one simply cannot understand what the Trinitarian concept is about-- at least from our perspective.

 

[metis]

God (Capital - Eloyhim) - refers to YHWH - yet there were gods (also eloyhim).

The interpretation I've mostly seen coming from theologians is that "Eloheim" is a reference to God and His angels.