Jesus, Son of God

[Mister Emu]

What does that mean?

It means the Father has always generated the Son...

 

[Madhuri]

Christians lean on that 'begotten' theology.

What is that theology? Can it be explained in any way that will make some sense to me? Mr. Emu keeps saying that Jesus is eternally begotten but what does that mean.

 

[Madhuri]

Jesus is the Saviour of mankind . Luke 1v77, To give 'knowledge of salvation unto his people 'by the remission of their sins.
Jesus paid the sin-penalty (death) for man so we can enter eternal life IF we accept him as our Saviour.

Yes beta, I understand that this is the Christian belief. I am just trying to understand what it means to be the Son of God, 'eternally begotten'. Nobody is really explaining that to me.

 

[Madhuri]

It means the Father has always generated the Son...

And what does that mean? I would really appreciate extended explanations rather than one sentence answers. How am I expected to understand even a little bit?

 

[Thief]

What is that theology? Can it be explained in any way that will make some sense to me? Mr. Emu keeps saying that Jesus is eternally begotten but what does that mean.

Almost became a priest while chasing after this.
The church does hold certain proclamations as truth...and you may not rebuttal.

The catholic faith has a large volume called catechism.
6006 verses of faith considered to be beyond question.

That God sired a Son...physically...is a miracle.
Further explanation is rarely offered.

That Mary is a virgin...always...is beyond dispute.
You have to believe it.
Proving is not required....hence the nature of faith.

Over the years, I've taken the time to examine the notion and now lean to the teachings of the Carpenter....His parables.
I have set aside, what I cannot defend.
I do not profess what I cannot show you.
It would be the wrong kind of 'blind faith'.

So...there were two positions open at the seminary, and several candidates.
They chose someone else. That's okay.

I have become a rogue theologian.

 

[Beta]

Yes beta, I understand that this is the Christian belief. I am just trying to understand what it means to be the Son of God, 'eternally begotten'. Nobody is really explaining that to me.

Afraid i can not explain 'eternally begotten' to you since that is not biblical. Why don't you ask the person who told you that ? There sure is no explanation in the Bible for such a belief.
'Eternally begotten' would mean eternally conceived or fathered which is just nonsense. To beget = to father.

 

[Beta]

And what does that mean? I would really appreciate extended explanations rather than one sentence answers. How am I expected to understand even a little bit?

Some christians believe that Jesus has eternally existed , maybe that is what they mean by 'eternally generated ' which also does not make sense.
The Person Jesus did not exist before the virgin Mary conceived him of the Holy Spirit. Neither was God known as ' Father ' in the OT. In the NT God became the Father of his son Jesus.
Are we getting any nearer ? :help:

 

[Cosmos]

Please read: Gospel of Matthew Chapter 1!

The Guardian of the Baha'i Faith, Shoghi Effendi states:

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth."

Shoghi Effendi also stated that it is a fact that due to the miraculous nature of Jesus' birth that He would only possess the mitochondrial DNA of Mary, His biological mother. However, let us stay reminded that Jesus was a male and it would be biologically impossible unless there was a Y chromosome shared. Though we accept and acknowledge without a doubt the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and the Sonship or Divinity of Christ Jesus, I find it important to narrate another letter on behalf of the Guardian on this doctrinal issue mirroring Christian theology:

"It would be sacrilege for a Bahá'í to believe that the parents of Jesus were illegally married and that the latter was consequently of an illegal union. Such a possibility cannot be even conceived by a believer who recognizes the high station of Mary and the Divine Prophethood of Jesus Christ. It is this same false accusation which the people of His Day attributed to Mary that Bahá'u'lláh indirectly repudiated in the Iqan. The only alternative therefore is to admit that the birth of Jesus has been miraculous. The operation of miracles is not necessarily irrational or illogical. It does by no means constitute a limitation of the Omnipotence of God. The belief in the possibilities of miracles, on the contrary, implies that God's power is beyond any limitation whatsoever. For it is only logical to believe that the Creator, Who is the sole Author of all the laws operating in the universe, is above them and can, therefore, if He deems it necessary, alter them at His Own Will. We, as humans, cannot possibly attempt to read His Mind, and to fully grasp His Wisdom. Mystery is therefore an inseparable part of true religion, and as such, should be recognized by the believers." (From a letter of the Guardian to an individual believer, October 1, 1935) [emphasis mine]

All we can know for sure is that it is the Holy Spirit's business. But to be fair, we cannot through rationality or science out of the window when dealing with the Virgin Birth, and it is best to ask questions to better understand the theological dimensions we're dealing with here. When we read "Son of David" being referred to Jesus and when Paul declares Him to be "made in the flesh (seed) of David", we observe the dimensions of the miracle involved.

 

[Beta]

Friend , I have difficulty with your post since I am ignorant of your faith.
I believe that science has it's place in this materialistic world but God and His Word are a matter of faith without the need for evidence Heb.11v1, 6.
Once we look for evidence and scientific reasons and proof the whole belief in God becomes invalid and a vain thing , a waste of time as it leads into error and confusion. That is my take on it

 

[Madhuri]

Some christians believe that Jesus has eternally existed , maybe that is what they mean by 'eternally generated ' which also does not make sense.
The Person Jesus did not exist before the virgin Mary conceived him of the Holy Spirit. Neither was God known as ' Father ' in the OT. In the NT God became the Father of his son Jesus.
Are we getting any nearer ? :help:

Yes, this seems to make much more sense. But is it the general Christian belief?

 

[Mister Emu]

And what does that mean?

That is a fairly straightforward statement... If you asking about the intricacies of the process of divine generation, or procession in the case of the Holy Spirit for that matter, I don't know, no one does...

I would really appreciate extended explanations rather than one sentence answers.

My apologies...

To refer back to my metaphor, of the AI program... you have source computer which sends the program out to the other instances. The source computer sends out the signal as soon as it is turned on, that is part of its programming. As long as the source computer has been turned on, it has always sent out the signal.

Now, if that computer were imagined eternal, it would still have always sent out the program. Thus the other two instances of the program have always existed as well. All three would be eternal.

The Son is generated by, and the Holy Spirit proceeds from, the Father, and this has always been so. Unlike the hypothetical program, we do not, and probably, due to the limitations of the human mind, can not understand God in the whole. That is why the Trinity is conisdered a mystery.

 

[Madhuri]

Thanks Mr. Emu, I think I may be coming to grasp with concept gradually.

 

[Beta]

Yes, this seems to make much more sense. But is it the general Christian belief?

In my view of biblical understanding the 'christian' religion or belief is heavily interspersed with error so as to give a distorted picture somewhere along the line. Not until you come to that point (while seeking futher explanations) will you find the misconception and fail to find your way out.
It reminds me of the children of Israel who by not trusting God were left to wander in the wilderness for 40 years and die there. Once we are tangled up in satans net of confusion (like a fly in a spiders web) there is no hope of escape except by fully turning to GOD in REPENTENCE. That is what scripture says.

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

This thread reminded me of a vid I watched not long time ago on youtube:

[youtube]hHPn9EDd51o[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHPn9EDd51o

Its just the confusing atmosphere that made me remember this vid