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Jesus: The Missing Years in the East

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
If that were the case, then Ollivander from Harry Potter would never be able to sell wands with a Unicorn hair core. Do you research, man. Seriously.

We both know research was never my strong suit. I'm much more prudent in the realm of imaginative speculation. :D

I have found conclusive proof of the unicorn. This is definitely not a doctored photo, I'll bet 1000:1 on that.

unicorn_goat.jpg


Behold. The unicorn.

Though to be honest, I'm much more impressed by his beard.

It's...It's...[sniffs with tears running down eyes]...it's as beautiful as I always imagined!

This post touched my heart-strings, and although determined not to let it happen, a tear ran down my cheek, as I worried about your welfare.

Such a short post from you can only mean that you are poorly? Do get well soon. :yes:

LMFAO

[/font]


"...These Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calani." Josephus (37 - 100 A.D.), (Book I:22.)

"Megasthenes, who was sent to India by Seleucus Nicator, about three hundred years before Christ says that the Jews 'were an Indian tribe or sect called Kalani...'" (Anacalypsis, by Godfrey Higgins, Vol. I; p. 400.)

"The tribe of Ioud or the Brahmin Abraham, left the Maturea of the kingdom of Oude in India and, settling in Goshen, or the house of the Sun or Heliopolis in Egypt, gave it the name of the place which they had left in India, Maturea." (Anacalypsis; Vol. I, p. 405.)

*

OOh, a Josephus reference regarding that Jews were derived from Indian Philosphers plus some extra supporting evidence. The plot thickens. : hamster :

(I was going to put the popcorn symbol, but the dancing hamster is just so much more amusing.)


Ingledsva, you impress me more and more every day.
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
fwiw...

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When Jesus Lived in India, by Alan Jacobs
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Jesus And Moses In India by Asad Farooq

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Jesus In India by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Mirza Ahmad Hazrat and Mirza Ahmad Hazrat

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Jesus In India by JAMES W. Deardorff

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The Gospel on the Thirteenth Apostle; A pilgrimage to India then returns to the middle east by Arthur Hagopian
 

Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
and...

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King of Travelers Jesus' Lost Years in India by Edward T Martin

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Jesus and Moses are Buried in India, by Gene D. Matlock

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Jesus' Tomb in India by Paul Constantine Pappas

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Jesus Lived in India: His Unknown Life Before and After the Crucifixion
by Holger Kersten
 
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roger1440

I do stuff
Hi.......
So you don't particularly admire Bart, or follow his every spiritual inclination? Could I go further in proposing that you don't totally agree with his findings and opinions about historical Jesus?

If you do, that's fine. But if you don't, then why would you rely so heavily on anything that he wrote..... so to speak?

I call this 'scholar-flag-waving'!!! :D .:)
I thought I made my point.
 

Shermana

Heretic
Regarding the passage from Josephus's Against Apion, it's important to look at the whole quote in question. It's a supposed exchange from Aristotle several centuries before Josephus lived, and even if its true, it could very well be referring to Indian converts who decided to live in Judea or Jews who had lived in India and "derived from the Indian philosophers" in their thinking who had returned. Why would it say "Derived from the Indian philosophers"? Are all Indians philosophers? "They are named by the Indians Kalami", what does that mean? Why did they get the name Kalami? Why are they named particularly by "The Indians"? Clearly a separate people in a foreign land.

Legion, what does the word for "Derived" entail exactly?

But now that not only the lowest sort of the Grecians, but those that are had in the greatest admiration for their philosophic improvements among them, did not only know the Jews, but when they lighted upon any of them, admired them also, it is easy for any one to know. For Clearchus, who was the scholar of Aristotle, and inferior to no one of the Peripatetics whomsoever, in his first book concerning sleep, says that "Aristotle his master related what follows of a Jew," and sets down Aristotle's own discourse with him. The account is this, as written down by him: "Now, for a great part of what this Jew said, it would be too long to recite it; but what includes in it both wonder and philosophy it may not be amiss to discourse of. Now, that I may be plain with thee, Hyperochides, I shall herein seem to thee to relate wonders, and what will resemble dreams themselves. Hereupon Hyperochides answered modestly, and said, For that very reason it is that all of us are very desirous of hearing what thou art going to say. Then replied Aristotle, For this cause it will be the best way to imitate that rule of the Rhetoricians, which requires us first to give an account of the man, and of what nation he was, that so we may not contradict our master's directions. Then said Hyperochides, Go on, if it so pleases thee. This man then, [answered Aristotle,] was by birth a Jew, and came from Celesyria; these Jews are derived from the Indian philosophers; they are named by the Indians Calami, and by the Syrians Judaei, and took their name from the country they inhabit, which is called Judea; but for the name of their city, it is a very awkward one, for they call it Jerusalem. Now this man, when he was hospitably treated by a great many, came down from the upper country to the places near the sea, and became a Grecian, not only in his language, but in his soul also; insomuch that when we ourselves happened to be in Asia about the same places whither he came, he conversed with us, and with other philosophical persons, and made a trial of our skill in philosophy; and as he had lived with many learned men, he communicated to us more information than he received from us." This is Aristotle's account of the matter, as given us by Clearchus; which Aristotle discoursed also particularly of the great and wonderful fortitude of this Jew in his diet, and continent way of living, as those that please may learn more about him from Clearchus's book itself; for I avoid setting down any more than is sufficient for my purpose. Now Clearchus said this by way of digression, for his main design was of another nature.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I thought I made my point.

I do not think that you made your point.

You posted 'in the lee' of Bart Erhman's point:-
Originally Posted by roger1440
"Bart D. Ehrman, a Bible scholar and historian famous for his best sellers, says that "Today there is not a single recognized scholar on the planet who has any doubts about the matter. The entire story was invented by Notovitch, who earned a good deal of money and a substantial amount of notoriety for his hoax."[7]"

If you don't believe in and support Bart Ehrman, then there's little to be gained from posting his opinions, surely? I've heard that he's a book seller. I've heard that he's a 'Bart Ehrman' seller.

If you don't believe in Notovitch, or the idea that Jesus traveled before his mission, then..... great. Just tell us. But there's many claims from Cornwall to the far-east that he did.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
I have found conclusive proof of the unicorn. This is definitely not a doctored photo, I'll bet 1000:1 on that.

unicorn_goat.jpg


Behold. The unicorn.

Though to be honest, I'm much more impressed by his beard.
Ooh, do they come in a nice strawberry roan like this? Pink unicorns are in high demand!

Jones.jpg
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I foresee some excellent future book titles.

  • "Stealing Jesus"
  • "The Italian Job"
  • "Mission Implausible"
  • "Spanking Jesus" by Dr. Benjamin Spock
  • "Bill & Ted & Jesus Excellent Adventure"
  • "Jesus Christ Superstar Galactica"
  • "India can wait"
  • "Yoga with Jesus"
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Legion, what does the word for "Derived" entail exactly?
ἀπόγονοι/apogonoi= descendents.
Contra Apion 1.179 - οὗτοι δέ εἰσιν ἀπόγονοι τῶν ἐν Ἰνδοῖς φιλοσόφων, καλοῦνται δέ, ὥς φασιν, οἱ φιλόσοφοι παρὰ μὲν Ἰνδοῖς Καλανοί, παρὰ δὲ Σύροις Ἰουδαῖοι τοὔνομα λαβόντες ἀπὸ τοῦ τόπου: προσαγορεύεται γὰρ ὃν κατοικοῦσι τόπον Ἰουδαία./houtoi de eisin apogonoi ton en Indois philosophon kalountai de, hos phasin, hoi philosophoi para men Indios Kalanoi, para de Syrios Ioudaioi tounoma labontes apo tou topou: prosagoreuetai gar hon katoiousi topon Ioudaia. /"These [people] are descendants of the philosophers in India - philosophers who, they say, are called in India the Kalanoi, in Syria Judeans, taking their name from geography (for they came out of the land of Judaea)."

Clearchus, whence comes this information, didn't really care about the nuances of race or even of origins but rather displayed a typical Greek interest in the "exotic" traditions of Persia, India, Judea, etc. Elsewhere he claims that the Indian philosophers are descendants of the Persian magi. Basically, he treats the "Orient" of his day not unlike many Westerners today do with "the mystic East"- lump things together and show no real interest in anything but making it as exotic and cool as possible. So, for Clearchus, not only are geographical regions confused by ignoring dividing lines, but region becomes synonymous with race, allowing the entirety of all "exotic" lands to become basically the same and, even more importantly, the various "exotic" peoples/roles (Indian philosophers, Persian Magi, even the invented Kalanoi) are all depicted as interrelated without even the slightest concern for any accuracy.
 
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Shermana

Heretic
I foresee some excellent future book titles.

  • "Stealing Jesus"
  • "The Italian Job"
  • "Mission Implausible"
  • "Spanking Jesus" by Dr. Benjamin Spock
  • "Bill & Ted & Jesus Excellent Adventure"
  • "Jesus Christ Superstar Galactica"
  • "India can wait"
  • "Yoga with Jesus"

Can I Steal Stealing Jesus from you?

And Legion, I think we should collaborate, with your academic database in your brain and my drive to return back Jesus into the Jewish fold, I think we have a winner.

Otherwise, I think Bill & Ted & Jesus's excellent adventure has some serious potential. I do have contacts with hollywood you know...
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's what they want you to think.
Probably. But I have access to all that you do (and because I am a mere puppet serving their designs, I have access to even more). We can both compare the (at least a translation of) the Greek NT relative to an NT from another language. What's the difference?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
Probably. But I have access to all that you do (and because I am a mere puppet serving their designs, I have access to even more). We can both compare the (at least a translation of) the Greek NT relative to an NT from another language. What's the difference?

Well, let's see....off the top of my head, just as an example, and correct me if I am mistaken, but the Greek quotes Jesus as saying:

"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

These are the words of a soul that feels lost, abandoned.

The Aramaic quotes Yeshua as saying:


"My God, My God, for this I was kept [this was My destiny-I was born for this]."

These are not the words of a man who is lost, but those of a man for which the truth suddenly dawns.

But the bottom line, for me, at least, is not so much the differences in meanings, but that the Greek is deceptively fronted as the original.
 
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LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Well, let's see....off the top of my head, just as an example, and correct me if I am mistaken, but the Greek quotes Jesus as saying:

"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

These are the words of a soul that feels lost, abandoned.

The Aramaic quotes Yeshua as saying:

"My God, My God, for this I was kept [this was My destiny-I was born for this]."

These are not the words of a man who is lost, but those of a man for which the truth suddenly dawns.

Only the "Aramaic" doesn't say this. It says: il, il, lamono shabakthoni. That is the Syriac version of eli, eli, lema sabachthani/mein got, mein gott, varum hast du mich verlassen/my god my god why have you forsaken me?
 
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