godnotgod
Thou art That
The notion that: "... the Word became flesh..."....is magic itself, Greek or no-Greek.
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Jesus: The Missing Years in the East
- Thread starter godnotgod
- Start date
The notion that: "... the Word became flesh..."....is magic itself, Greek or no-Greek.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Obviously Christianity is not a language. I didn't say it was. I am saying that later Christians misinterpreted the Greek word.
In fact I think you should look at my translation alongside the one you said was good, and then go look up the words he and I don't agree on, in the Greek.
*
Then perhaps you can translate ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο
godnotgod
Thou art That
I'm so sorry to hear that! Poor fellow. How long have you suffered from this malady?
I can provide a koan, if you wish, as a cure.
godnotgod
Thou art That
You're missing my point. In Greek or any other language, the notion of the Logos becoming flesh is pure magic.
godnotgod
Thou art That
I think you've got a good point there:
Following John 1, the early Christian apologist Justin Martyr (c 150) identified Jesus as the Logos. Like Philo, Justin also identified the Logos with the Angel of the Lord, and used this as a way of arguing for Christianity to Jews:
I shall give you another testimony, my friends, from the Scriptures, that God begot before all creatures a Beginning, [who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos.
In his First Apology, Justin used the Stoic concept of the Logos as a way of arguing for Christianity to non-Jews. Since a Greek audience would accept this concept, his argument could concentrate on identifying this Logos with Jesus. However, Justin does not go so far as to articulate a fully consistent doctrine of the Logos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos_(Christianity)
Dang! Reading it in Greek is way different than reading the translation! (pardon the pun) {I don't even read Greek, but I can read that!}
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
1:14 doesn't have to be translated as Jesus being the word either.
It can be translated -
And - "the Logos flesh came into" ...
It doesn't have to be "became."
And the logos flesh came into, and resides in us,
or
And the logos matter "became" and resides in us,
etc.
It says all came from logos.
*
godnotgod
Thou art That
I don't think the Logos should be understood as Reason or Logic in ordinary terms of understanding, nor as the opposite of what is considered irrational. It is neither rational nor irrational, but non-rational in nature, and therefore, transcendent of duality. This is why I say it is Light, which allows insight, rather than conceptualized thought that is part of ordinary Reason or Logic. Logos is not a doctrine, but being itself, of a higher order. 'Before Abraham was, I Am'
The original meaning of Logos had to do with the order of the universe and rationality (Heraclitus), but when we look at the universe itself, we do see order, but it is not a deliberately-contrived kind of order. Looking up into the night sky, we see a panoply of stars in perfect order, but one that is neither deliberate nor accidental; everything is just right. But we also see a multitude of stars the presence of which lack any particular function, in terms of what ordinary logic or reason would dictate. On our own planet, there is an explosion of form, variety, and color, again, without rhyme or reason, and yet, all in balance and harmony.* So yes, there is a Logos behind it all, but not that of ordinary rational thought. I think it would be difficult to imagine a universe that was logically and rationally conceived. This view is the Christian theological view, in which God is an artisan, a 'maker', and the world, including man, is an artifact, a created 'thing', lacking consciousness of its own, other than that which is bestowed upon it by its maker, but which, nonetheless, has a purpose, and whatever remains mysterious is best left to God's 'reasoning'.
In the Hindu cosmological view, the universe is a play (lila) of the Absolute, manifested as illusion (maya) having no purpose other than that of sheer delight.
*However, we are just beginning to appreciate the function diversity plays in the planet's ecology.
The original meaning of Logos had to do with the order of the universe and rationality (Heraclitus), but when we look at the universe itself, we do see order, but it is not a deliberately-contrived kind of order. Looking up into the night sky, we see a panoply of stars in perfect order, but one that is neither deliberate nor accidental; everything is just right. But we also see a multitude of stars the presence of which lack any particular function, in terms of what ordinary logic or reason would dictate. On our own planet, there is an explosion of form, variety, and color, again, without rhyme or reason, and yet, all in balance and harmony.* So yes, there is a Logos behind it all, but not that of ordinary rational thought. I think it would be difficult to imagine a universe that was logically and rationally conceived. This view is the Christian theological view, in which God is an artisan, a 'maker', and the world, including man, is an artifact, a created 'thing', lacking consciousness of its own, other than that which is bestowed upon it by its maker, but which, nonetheless, has a purpose, and whatever remains mysterious is best left to God's 'reasoning'.
In the Hindu cosmological view, the universe is a play (lila) of the Absolute, manifested as illusion (maya) having no purpose other than that of sheer delight.
*However, we are just beginning to appreciate the function diversity plays in the planet's ecology.
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godnotgod
Thou art That
I still think 'manifested' is the true meaning, 'became' and 'came from' still imply the dualistic notions of spirit and matter, as well as 'creation', which leads us back to the age-old problem of where the original 'matter' came from. When seen as being 'manifested', there is no such problem, and magic is OK to boot.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
We might as well be talking about the consistency of dinosaur turds.
===
"I don't know what I'm talking about, gobblie goop."
"I'm obstinate about the stuff I make up. Purplie poop."
"The logos is a smelly butterfly that landed on Judas's ear."
"No, No, the logos is the award winning pizza pie at Charlie's. I wrote that into someone else's translation. Yabba-dabba-do."
Because of all this, we must conclude that dinosaur turds tasted like Starburst and looked like Elmo.
===
"I don't know what I'm talking about, gobblie goop."
"I'm obstinate about the stuff I make up. Purplie poop."
"The logos is a smelly butterfly that landed on Judas's ear."
"No, No, the logos is the award winning pizza pie at Charlie's. I wrote that into someone else's translation. Yabba-dabba-do."
Because of all this, we must conclude that dinosaur turds tasted like Starburst and looked like Elmo.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Well then, they must have gone barefoot to Charlie's to eat the award winning pizza pie.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
"The word became flesh" is a mistranslation.
It should be, "The word became fresh," the motto of Charlie's.
It's just one letter, but it's significant.
What the Greek means is none of my concern! It means what I make up!
And I am damn good at making up stuff.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
Quite right. The pizza made it from Napoli to Jerusalem on the back of a donkey. It smelled like donkey *** when it got there, which is why we have the miracle, "The word became fresh."
The word is a cold, stale pizza that is more donkey than pie. But it arrived fresh and just in time.
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angellous_evangellous
Guest
That's ok, mine's better
In the beginning was the word, and the word was with the bird, and the word was the bird.
Bird is the Word! | FAMILY GUY | FOX BROADCASTING - YouTube
Simurgh is female. Did logos have a sex-change?
A very sound, Galilean conclusion.