Jesus was a Jew. When did his followers stop being Jews?

[metis]

Those physical Jew rejecting Jesus are totally cut off from God and living in delusion

Why are you assuming that, plus didn't both Jesus and Paul warn not to judge others?

The concept that one supposedly can only be "saved" by having a politically-correct belief is illogical based on both testaments, and it's highly judgmental. Maybe it's best to leave such judging to God.

 

[Rival]

There is nothing more Jewish than accepting the Messiah Jesus.

Those physical Jew rejecting Jesus are totally cut off from God and living in delusion

Why should it surprise anyone that they rejected the Messiah with their record of rejecting God's prophets from Moses on down

Yet God loves them and seek their return as his prodigal sons and daughters

What is it that makes non Jews think they can define what a Jew or Jewish is? Seriously, **** off.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus was a Jew teaching his followers. I have heard Jews refer to him as a Rabbi.
He said that he didn't come to destroy the (Mosaic) Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17-20)
Therefore, are Christians allowed to call ourselves Jews?

If by Jewish one means following Jehovah then they never stopped being Jews. However by denying Jesus as God, adherents of Judaism have stopped being Jews.

If one is talking about race then those followers who were Jewish remained Jewish and those who were Gentiles remained Gentile.

 

[Muffled]

I'm thinking maybe they stopped being Jews when they discovered bacon......?

I knew a Jew who liked lobster. However he had gone from being Jewish to being an adherent of Wicca and then to the Baptist denomination of Christianity.

 

[Muffled]

Jesus never existed.

I believe Julius Caesar never existed. After all we only have an historians report that he did and that could be completely fabricated.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Source? When have Jewish countries ever been superior technologically or ethically to others? I mean, I know THEY considered themselves all that and a bag of chips, but women had more rights in ancient Egypt,

Technologically they have not. Ethically I believe so absolutely. Culturally - very. I have become convinced of this through sources I have stumbled across. So I'll tell you how I see it, saving discussion of comparative feminism for last. (Maybe its because I'm a male.)

I have watched Bob Brier's video course on Egyptology where he goes through every Pharoah and describes Egypts political phases. Its 3000 years of pillage, enslavement and glorification of pillage and enslavement. Its like 3000 years of Ghengis Khan, except its as if people worshiped Ghengis and believed all his descendants were gods. For every beautiful thing in Luxor, there are 10,000 miseries. Other powerful 'Great' nations copy Egypt. Its culture spreads, making awful nasty kingdoms everywhere. (My words not Prof. Brier's) They all are jealous of Egypt, too. Some kingdoms are a little better culturally but they still have the disease of worshipping war -- and I do not mean this figuratively. They worship it. Their kings still wish they could be worshiped as gods like Pharoahs. The world near Egypt is miserable, awful place for 3000 years where you can pretty much expect to be invaded whenever you have anything, then 4000 years, then 5000 years. Its the Greeks who finally conquer Egypt, but then they are already are practically Egyptians themselves with notable exceptions and some new ideas mixed with Egyptian ones. They copy the Egyptian gods. The Greeks aren't quite as bad. They don't believe in making everyone else poor and bedraggled like the Egyptians do. They don't constantly decimate other countries to keep them in check.

The Greek Alexander conquered quite a lot of land and spread his country's culture everywhere hoping to become a god. His culture (Hellenistic culture) did endure for a long time. Greeks were planted all over to encourage Greek styles of living and to try to make Alexander's empire permanent. The Greeks flattered Jews as enlightened philosophers but strange, but there were clashes in which the Greeks occasionally violently opposed Jews. According to Wylen's Jews in the Time of Jesus (he is Jewish but this is scholarship not religious) the Greeks viewed circumcision as "Desecration of the beauty of the male form" which incidentally Greeks considered to be far superior to the female form. Homosexual love was considered to be more pure than heterosexual, better. Whether this made life better for women I'm not sure. Probably not? Maybe so? I do not know about that.

While I can enumerate laws in the Bible which specifically protect women, I do not have broad enough knowledge to compare their situation to that of the woman in Egypt benefiting from the regular pillage of nine other countries. I think women in Egypt were separated into classes. I can confirm that the Jewish laws and prophets do not encourage war and despise the Egyptian disease of worshiping it and of the kings who wish to be gods. Hating war is quite feminist in my view no matter what 'Rights' Egypt seems to have had. Jews originated from one of the nine countries that were regularly pillaged by Egypt which perhaps could explain why they did not look at Egypt in a favorable way. The Jewish culture eventually dominated and destroyed Egyptian culture, so that today people do not speak so fondly of war. I think this is very good for families and women, and I think that women in Judaism are given the kind of freedom that makes them free in their minds. I give that high marks even if they are not breadwinners. I think there is a lot going for Judaism in a feminist sense, but I admit I have heard complaints from one woman. I think that women in the orthodox community do have less freedom than women in modern secular culture. I think they are much better off and that Jewish women were always generally better off than Egyptian women culturally although perhaps not materially compared with those in the priest class in Egypt.

the Wisest Man Solomon still has to outsource building the Temple because there are no Jewish people good at math or whatever (pi is the least accurate out of all the surrounding cultures),

Assuming Solomon is the wisest man on Earth that is quite a strange story. Either he is or he isn't. I don't think technology is a real indicator of what culture is best. I do think that modern appliances have greatly contributed to happiness, but technological improvement does not always correlate with social improvement. It can also cause lots of misery as with industrial revolutions, so the technology makes changes but then the culture has to be strong enough to deal with the changes. Suppose that Egypt had been able to make plastic? The world would be full of plastic Egyptian sarcophagi and bombs and all kinds of horrors. The technological improvement would not necessarily have improved Egypt.

God is a fairy who can be defeated by soldiers with iron, etc.

This sounds like a reductionist view of Judaism that incorporates elements of protestantism. The Shema is both a prayer and an oath. The LORD is a promise as well as a king, and God is the ideal far above all. Waiting upon the LORD means not going to war, not trying to take matters into your own hands. Its like the patient endurance mentioned in Revelation. Some goals cannot be accomplished through war. The pagans were slow to adopt this, but they did as they realized it was a better way to live.

This is not a dig. I mean, every culture has its pros and cons (my own country thinks itself the best, and well, it's just not, statistically speaking, from many different angles), just Israel/Judah didn't have the pros you're mentioning.

When you are talking about two ancient cultures where one is so far superior there is just no competition.

 

[allright]

Why are you assuming that, plus didn't both Jesus and Paul warn not to judge others?

The concept that one supposedly can only be "saved" by having a politically-correct belief is illogical based on both testaments, and it's highly judgmental. Maybe it's best to leave such judging to God.

 

[allright]

Glad Jesus didn't judge others
"You serpents you brood of vipers how will you escape the damnation of hell"
"You are of your father the devil and your will is to do his will"

Paul "drive out the wicked person from among you"
"their end is destruction their god is the belly"

 

[metis]

"You serpents you brood of vipers how will you escape the damnation of hell"
"You are of your father the devil and your will is to do his will"...

Paul "drive out the wicked person from among you"

First of all, the "you" is used generically, thus without reference to any particular person or organized group or groups, and secondly note that it deals with actions and not a p.c. belief.

It is Paul that seems more in tune with a more narrow vision of salvation, and yet even he seems to hedge on that. For example, he says that "there's faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is ___". Please note that the Koine Greek word for "love" is "agape", and unlike the same word in English, it connotes action. IOW, one just doesn't have agape-- one lives a life of agape.

And when Paul goes to Corinth, he praises a group about they having a strong faith, and yet they had not yet been converted.

Again, I do think it's best to leave the judging to God-- even if it's just to be on the safe side.

 

[allright]

First of all, the "you" is used generically, thus without reference to any particular person or organized group or groups, and secondly note that it deals with actions and not a p.c. belief.

It is Paul that seems more in tune with a more narrow vision of salvation, and yet even he seems to hedge on that. For example, he says that "there's faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is ___". Please note that the Koine Greek word for "love" is "agape", and unlike the same word in English, it connotes action. IOW, one just doesn't have agape-- one lives a life of agape.

And when Paul goes to Corinth, he praises a group about they having a strong faith, and yet they had not yet been converted.

Again, I do think it's best to leave the judging to God-- even if it's just to be on the safe side.

 

[allright]

He was speaking directly to the faces of the Jewish leaders who were speaking to him There was nothing generic about it

 

[Akivah]

What is it that makes non Jews think they can define what a Jew or Jewish is? Seriously, **** off.

It seems to be a standard tenet of their religion.

 

[RabbiO]

It seems to be a standard tenet of their religion.

There comes a point where one comes to realize that continually banging one's head against a stone wall results in only one outcome - the need to find a new kippah.

 

[pearl]

Jesus was a Jew. When did his followers stop being Jews?

Probably when they were excommunicated from the Synagogue and cursed as heretics.
"May the minim [heretics] perish in an instant; may they be effaced from the book of life and not be counted among the Just."

 

[Tarheeler]

There comes a point where one comes to realize that continually banging one's head against a stone wall results in only one outcome - the need to find a new kippah.

Preferably with thick padding.

 

[Milton Platt]

I believe Julius Caesar never existed. After all we only have an historians report that he did and that could be completely fabricated.

More than one historian, I think. As well as his image on coins from the time period, images in stone, references to him in government documents, etc.

 

[12jtartar]

Jesus was a Jew teaching his followers. I have heard Jews refer to him as a Rabbi.
He said that he didn't come to destroy the (Mosaic) Law, but to fulfill it. (Matt 5:17-20)
Therefore, are Christians allowed to call ourselves Jews?

GeelongFams4WildPeace,
This is an example of type and anti type. The Jews were God's chosen people, but they would not obey His laws. When Jesus came to earth, he said that none of the Jews were obeying the Mosaic Law Covenant, John 7:19. Peter even said that the Jews could not obey the Law Covenant, Acts 15:10.
One of the main things that Jesus came to earth for was to end the Mosaic Law Covenant, because it condemned to death all under it, Galatians 3:10.
On the night before his death, after the Lord's evening meal, or Last Supper, Jesus instituted a New Covenant, Luke 22:17-20, 1Corinthians 11:23-26. When Jesus died the Mosaic Law Covenant was superseded by The New Covenant, which was much better than the Mosaic Covenant, because it was based on the precious blood of God's only begotten son, not on the Blood of bulls and goats, as the Mosaic Covenent was. Under the New Covenant sins could be forgiven Completely, Hebrews 7:11-25, 8:4-13. The New Covenant made God's people perfect in His eyes, which the Mosaic Law Covenant could not do, Hebrews 10:1-4, 8-14.
Under the New Covenant, all people who were in a saved condition, were Spiritual Jews, or Christians. Just because a person was born a fleshly Jew did not make him a Spiritual Jew, Romans 2:28,29. Christians, Spiritual Jews or Gentiles were considered Spiritual Jews, and were no longer under the Mosaic Law Covenant, Romans 6:14,14' 1Corinthians 9:20.
Consider how much better the New Covenant was, Acts 13:36-39, Hebrews 10:28,29. 2Corinthians 3:5,6.
The New Covenant was based on Faith, not works of The Law, Romans 9:30-32, 3:20, 7:4-6, Colossians 2:13,14.
Agape!!!

 

[roger1440]

Those physical Jew rejecting Jesus are totally cut off from God and living in delusion

What is a "physical Jew"? My study Bibles don't have that term.

 

[Rival]

Preferably with thick padding.

This is the real reason Charedim wear a black hat over it as well.

 

[Evie]

the

That depends on who is right, you or the Bible. Because of you other comments, guess who I vote for.


I zigga zoomba

Jews do not believe that JESUS IS THE messiah. the CHRIST. they are still waiting for the promised Messiah .