Jesus was pro-drinking

[Desert Snake]

Freshly made wine IS grapejuice with no alcoholic content, by the way. The alcoholic part takes months or years of fermentation.

I'm sure that both were commonly consumed. Wine is practical as well, for certain reasons.

 

[Lyndon]

Personally I don't see how anyone can make the claim that Jesus was sinless and perfect if he was drinking alcohol and supplying alcohol for partygoers.

 

[Lyndon]

A wedding reception is a party isn't it, at least it is today. And I would assume the wedding goers were there for a wedding, not primarily to hear Jesus speak. And no, my quote wasn't responding to you or the OP, just the topic at hand.

And as to drinking wine, while it wouldn't surprise me if many Christians drank, it would surprise me if a perfect being; "God incarnate", was drinking alcohol or providing alcohol.

 

[SomeRandom]

But he was definitely anti-drunk driving.

How socially responsible of him!

 

[Lyndon]

You can't drive a camel through the eye of a needle when you're drunk!!

 

[Thanda]

Another atheists quoting scripture thread......

Remember, they have no scriptures of their own to quote and debate...it's cold outside religion.

 

[Thanda]

To the point of getting drunk.

Let's consider the Bible. When he did his first miracle, he turned water into wine and the guy at the wedding responded that he saved the best wine for last, when normally people were too drunk to tell that it tasted terrible. But now it tasted great.

Now, if Jesus was against getting drunk, why doesn;'t the Bible record him talking about it espeically at this wedding? Why didnt he stop the drunk people, who were drunk as we know from the passage at the wedding, from being drunk? he obviously just was okay with it and helped it, as the guy said everyone was already drunk.

jesus was totally okay with them staying drunk for longer as they ran out of it. water would of sobered them up. and ya water contamination ect but he could of done his magical powers to just make the water sterile and safe, but no he wanted to keep the party going.

I'd get the passages but anyone can look them up and damn the 4th beer just hit me hard lol

What is the 16th century word for grape juice?

And where did you learn your English? When did well drunk come to mean anything other than they had drunk a lot.

 

[Windwalker]

What is the 16th century word for grape juice?

And where did you learn your English? When did well drunk come to mean anything other than they had drunk a lot.

The Bible verses is actually written in Greek, not English. And the Greek word does mean to become intoxicated. There are plenty of Bible verses that are translated to "water down" (pun intended) the implications of a verse that may or may not square with a theological point of view, such as Jesus saying the kingdom of heaven is "inside" you, to a watered down unsupportable "among you" or "in your midst" translation. By all means, let the word drunk mean literally drunk as in intoxicated, because if for no other reason the saying makes no sense if it doesn't mean that. To paraphrase the guy in modern terms, "Normally people save the crappy stuff to pull out when people are too drunk to care, but you saved your top-shelf stuff for now! That's crazy dude!". You see?

But here's the thing, as I said in my first response, that was what the master of the feast was saying to the bridegroom about why the good stuff was being served after the other stuff had run out. It's does not say anything about the state of intoxication of those presently at the feast. He is simply saying that's what people normally do, so he is confused why this guy would save the good stuff for last. It makes no sense if it doesn't mean 'lubed up" for him to say that, but again, it does not have to be referencing those in attendance at that wedding.

 

[Windwalker]

To those saying they were not drunk...

"And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now."

See my post from a few moments ago. I would say this, that the guy saying this is referencing what people "normally" do. Even at "normal" occasions, whatever that may be, a wedding, a marriage, a bar mitzvah, or what have you, it doesn't suggest even in those occasions that everyone is smashed out of their minds. Not everyone at parties gets drunk, even while they are drinking. If the verse said, "Why are you giving them the good stuff now that they are so smashed out of their minds as you can see right now," then this argument is a little more potentent. As it stands, the guy is just talking about how things go at normal parties he is familiar with, not whether or not that literally was the case in all instances. It's just a tad bit too literal of a reading to take what he is saying and make it say "these guests at your party are drunk right now". Right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Galatians 5:19-21....."Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are sexual immorality, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, things which I am telling you in advance, just as I said before, that the ones who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God." (Lexham)

Since the deeds of the flesh are listed here and the consequences of participating in any of theses means you don't inherit the kingdom, it seems pretty clear that drunkenness is right up there with sexual immorality and sorcery.

Jesus advocated moderation in all things...not excess.

Heh... factioning and creating enmity by using a verse that forbids factions and enmity. What did Jesus have to say about hypocrisy?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Remember, they have no scriptures of their own to quote and debate...it's cold outside religion.

You don't think that your sales prospects should inspect the product you're selling?

 

[Unification]

To the point of getting drunk.

Let's consider the Bible. When he did his first miracle, he turned water into wine and the guy at the wedding responded that he saved the best wine for last, when normally people were too drunk to tell that it tasted terrible. But now it tasted great.

Now, if Jesus was against getting drunk, why doesn;'t the Bible record him talking about it espeically at this wedding? Why didnt he stop the drunk people, who were drunk as we know from the passage at the wedding, from being drunk? he obviously just was okay with it and helped it, as the guy said everyone was already drunk.

jesus was totally okay with them staying drunk for longer as they ran out of it. water would of sobered them up. and ya water contamination ect but he could of done his magical powers to just make the water sterile and safe, but no he wanted to keep the party going.

I'd get the passages but anyone can look them up and damn the 4th beer just hit me hard lol

Wine is a metaphor for "truth."

 

[Windwalker]

Wine is a metaphor for "truth."

Not in that story. Wine is just a noun, like sandals or a purse, or a donkey, or a mountain upon which Jesus sat to teach.

 

[Lyndon]

What is totally not clear is if wine also is the term for non alcoholic grape juice, and if it is alcoholic what is the percent of alcohol, my impression is that historical alcohol was often very low percent of alcohol, hence you could drink a hell of a lot of it before getting drunk.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wine is a metaphor for "truth."

So you don't think the story literally happened?

 

[Lyndon]

Maybe he just dropped some Kool Aid or Tang in the water, being their first experience of that, no wonder they thought he had saved the best for last, Kool Aid probably tastes one hell of a lot better than first century wine!!

 

[Windwalker]

What is totally not clear is if wine also is the term for non alcoholic grape juice, and if it is alcoholic what is the percent of alcohol, my impression is that historical alcohol was often very low percent of alcohol, hence you could drink a hell of a lot of it before getting drunk.

Why would it be called wine if it was grape juice? Try this out as a line of thought in the context at the wedding at Cana. "Normally people wait until guest have drunk a lot of grape juice already before they pull out their "best" grape juice". Sound's pretty ridiculous, doesn't it? Besides, what's so special about grape juice to serve at a wedding! It makes no sense whatsoever. "Here's your wedding oatmeal".

 

[Lyndon]

Why does the bible never talk about grape juice, only wine, probably because they used the same Hebrew or Greek word for both.

 

[Windwalker]

Why does the bible never talk about grape juice, only wine, probably because they used the same Hebrew or Greek word for both.

Because they didn't have refrigerators to keep it from fermenting? Again, though, what on earth is so special about grape juice to serve at a special occasion like a wedding?? None of this makes any logical sense. People do not call grape juice wine. Wine is wine is wine is wine. It is not something that's a special occasion beverage. Why on earth would you say "you saved the best grape juice to last!" It makes zero sense. Actual wine however makes perfect sense.

 

[Lyndon]

You just don't get it, do you. Wine means juice of grapes, which when fresh is unfermented, what is so hard to understand about that?? You're thinking in English language terms, the Bible was not written in English, and it would appear they did not have a word for unfermented grape juice other than calling it wine .