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Jesus was pro-drinking

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You just don't get it, do you. Wine means juice of grapes, which when fresh is unfermented, what is so hard to understand about that??
Next time you go to the grocery store, ask them where they keep the frozen wine, and let's see what looks you get. :) And I don't get it, because there is nothing there to get. It's nonsensical. You may as well call them "wine vines" instead of grape vines. Wine is fermented. Prior to that, it is not wine. Strawberry juice isn't wine either, until it goes through a fermentation process. Then, and only then, is it wine.

You're thinking in English language terms, the Bible was not written in English, and it would appear they did not have a word for unfermented grape juice other than calling it wine .
Why would they serve grape juice at a wedding, and why would he remark that the "best" was saved till last??? You can say this of wine, but you cannot say this of grape juice. Try to make it fit with grape juice. You cannot.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I've been to several weddings where they served grape juice, but I guess you don't want to consider that possibility.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
And at the weddings where they served grape juice, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they served the most expensive best sparkling grape juice first, and as the guests continued to drink, switched to cheaper stuff like frozen Welches grape juice.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Where is the sin of getting drunk, my god I can think of a lot worse things than being drunk, plus back then the water wasn't that great, so drinking alcohols would be a good thing, and of course if Jesus did exist he would have been into it.
I have been around people who get drunk regularly: It was part of my family. I've had family members die of it. Being drunk on a regular basis can destroy a family, and yes, I see it happen. I've experienced it. It just doesn't affect the person drinking, but all the people around that person
I am not speaking of getting drunk once in a while, but about getting drunk everyday, and I've known those who do that.
Drinking in moderation, as I said in an earlier post, is a whole different thing.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
So you don't think the story literally happened?

No. Water is symbolic of consciousness. One becoming consciously more aware in their temple(brain and mind) of truth.

Eating and drinking is symbolic of the the things our mind intakes, and dwells on such as the things we think of, how we perceive our environments, ourselves, and the minds of others how they can condition and influence.

Wine(truth) can definitely be bitter to our conscious ego's(wormwood) and we may not like the taste of truth because it may be something we don't want to hear, or receive, because we have been conditioned mentally to cling to what we want or think and it contaminates our minds.

We can consciously be drunk and decieved(ignorant) by lies or we can be consciously be drunk on truth in mind.

As we consciously evolve mentally, and as as wisdom and knowledge is revealed into our minds, consciously and scientifically, we should always serve the new wine(truth) over the old wine.

Just as marriage is divine internal between husband(conscious) and wife(subconscious) integrated into oneness and balance and whole(holy) and no longer separated into duality by being drunk and contaminated with harmful and old truth perceived into our subconscious minds.
 

Paranoid Android

Active Member
To the point of getting drunk.

Let's consider the Bible. When he did his first miracle, he turned water into wine and the guy at the wedding responded that he saved the best wine for last, when normally people were too drunk to tell that it tasted terrible. But now it tasted great.

Now, if Jesus was against getting drunk, why doesn;'t the Bible record him talking about it espeically at this wedding? Why didnt he stop the drunk people, who were drunk as we know from the passage at the wedding, from being drunk? he obviously just was okay with it and helped it, as the guy said everyone was already drunk.

jesus was totally okay with them staying drunk for longer as they ran out of it. water would of sobered them up. and ya water contamination ect but he could of done his magical powers to just make the water sterile and safe, but no he wanted to keep the party going.

I'd get the passages but anyone can look them up and damn the 4th beer just hit me hard lol



It's too bad we are not allowed to use the Sacrament. I see obvious hypocrisy that they allow alcohol, which kills thousands, and disallow the Sacrament, which is to be used only once a month at our Full Moon meetings. I suppose our "Masters" know so much better then crippled, psychotic idiots.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I have been around people who get drunk regularly: It was part of my family. I've had family members die of it. Being drunk on a regular basis can destroy a family, and yes, I see it happen. I've experienced it. It just doesn't affect the person drinking, but all the people around that person
I am not speaking of getting drunk once in a while, but about getting drunk everyday, and I've known those who do that.
Drinking in moderation, as I said in an earlier post, is a whole different thing.
Yes and that is what I agree with, moderation, but them I am a happy drunk, so I see no sin whatsoever in that also, getting drunk doesn't mean you get drunk every single day.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You need to make up your own ideas about drinking and leave the Bible and quoting scripture to real Christians. And quit falsely accusing me of making personal attacks.

Anyone can read it, you made it about me personally and attributes (atheism) about me instead of the topic at hand.

Personally I don't see how anyone can make the claim that Jesus was sinless and perfect if he was drinking alcohol and supplying alcohol for partygoers.

I never said he was sinless or perfect, I'd imagine he was just some radical gnostic preacher who thought he was a prophet.

What is the 16th century word for grape juice?

And where did you learn your English? When did well drunk come to mean anything other than they had drunk a lot.

Putting aside how inaccurate the JKV translation is, I will admit I'm not up to par with a deep understanding of 16th century English... but I can easily assume that since they were drinking wine and they always saved the worst for last, was because they couldn't tell (and probably wouldn't care) it was as bad. Once your kinda drunk your senses are dulled and for a drunk person it's kind of helpful if you want to keep that same bac for a bit' longer.

Wine is a metaphor for "truth."

I always knew I would find truth when drunk :D

It's too bad we are not allowed to use the Sacrament. I see obvious hypocrisy that they allow alcohol, which kills thousands, and disallow the Sacrament, which is to be used only once a month at our Full Moon meetings. I suppose our "Masters" know so much better then crippled, psychotic idiots.

I have no idea what you are even talking about or referencing... would you be able to explain?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Freshly made wine IS grapejuice with no alcoholic content, by the way. The alcoholic part takes months or years of fermentation.

Huh? I generally call that grape juice. Is it doesn't ferment to produce alcohol, why would someone call it wine?
 

dust1n

Zindīq
Nevermind Lyndon, I was able to find this, so I get an idea of what you're talking about it:

"Was the Fruit of the Vine Fermented?

BY WAYNE JACKSON

In our country, it has been the custom to use wine in the Lord’s supper. A visitor from America suggests that we ought to use only grape juice. What did Jesus use when he instituted the communion at the Passover?

As to the nature of the fruit of the vine, employed during the Passover supper, the New Testament (Matthew 26:26-29, etc.) itself is not explicit in its definition of the expression. Linguistically, it could denote grape juice, or, on the other hand, what we commonly call wine (with some degree of fermentation).

Some contend that it must have been wine since, at the time of the Passover feast in the spring, grapes were not yet ripe; and, as there was no way of preserving fresh juice, the substance used by the Lord must have been fermented.

But that argument is not conclusive, because it is known, from ancient sources, that there were ways of preserving juice, thus preventing fermentation. The ancient Roman statesman, Cato, said:

“If you wish to have must [grape juice] all year, put grape juice in an amphora and seal the cork with pitch; sink it in a fishpond. After thirty days take it out. It will be grape juice for a whole year” (De Agri Cultura CXX).

On the other hand, there is considerable historical evidence that the common Passover beverage used by the Jews in the first century was wine. Dr. Jack Lewis states:

“Wine was ordinarily used at the Passover and is called ‘fruit of the vine’ in Berakoth 6:1” (1976, 147; for an extended discussion, see Lightfoot 1979, 346ff).

This does not prove that Jesus used wine, but it might be considered a presumption in that direction.

It should be noted in passing, however, that the wine of the first century, though containing a degree of fermentation, did not have nearly the potency that modern wines possess. Note the following quote from Professor R. Laird Harris:

All the wine [of Bible times] was light wine, i.e., not fortified with extra alcohol. Concentrated alcohol was only known in the Middle Ages when the Arabs invented distillation (“alcohol” is an Arabic word) so what is now called liquor or strong drink (i.e., whiskey, gin, etc.) and the twenty per cent fortified wines were unknown in Bible times. Beer was brewed by various methods, but its alcoholic content was light. The strength of natural wines is limited by two factors. The percentage of alcohol will be half of the percentage of the sugar in the juice. And if the alcoholic content is much above 10 or 11 percent, the yeast cells are killed and fermentation ceases. Probably ancient wines were 7-10 per cent . . . . To avoid the sin of drunkenness, mingling of wine with water was practiced. This dilution was specified by the Rabbis in NT times for the wine customary at Passover (1980, 376)."

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/224-was-the-fruit-of-the-vine-fermented
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
To the point of getting drunk.

Let's consider the Bible. When he did his first miracle, he turned water into wine and the guy at the wedding responded that he saved the best wine for last, when normally people were too drunk to tell that it tasted terrible. But now it tasted great.

Now, if Jesus was against getting drunk, why doesn;'t the Bible record him talking about it espeically at this wedding? Why didnt he stop the drunk people, who were drunk as we know from the passage at the wedding, from being drunk? he obviously just was okay with it and helped it, as the guy said everyone was already drunk.

jesus was totally okay with them staying drunk for longer as they ran out of it. water would of sobered them up. and ya water contamination ect but he could of done his magical powers to just make the water sterile and safe, but no he wanted to keep the party going.

I'd get the passages but anyone can look them up and damn the 4th beer just hit me hard lol
maybe because they were not Christians in first place , so they did not believe in his teaching ?
 
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