Jewish Messiah

[Ebionite]

In Judaism, resurrection is related to the Messianic era -- not the individual.

There's some crossover between Judaism and Christianity relating to the third day from Hosea:

Come, and let us return unto YHWH: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
Hosea 6:1-2

And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Luke 24:46

 

[Bthoth]

Qodesh means set-apart. Something that is set-apart is not the same as what it is set apart from. For example, the "holy spirit" is set-apart from other spirits.

Great scope. What is real is beyond what most realize. Holy spirit is a part of all the conscious living.

 

[Ebionite]

Holy spirit is a part of all the conscious living.

Do you have anything to support that?

 

[Bthoth]

Do you have anything to support that?

I can but not now. I thought it was already basic common sense; equal capability.

 

[Ebionite]

I can but not now. I thought it was already basic common sense; equal capability.

Human beings could well be equally capable of getting it wrong. "To err is human".

 

[Bthoth]

Human beings could well be equally capable of getting it wrong. "To err is human".

I 100% agree, so putting a life on the line without solid comprehension is hard. Exactly perfecting my point of equal capability.

The err is not being human, it is blind compliance. If given a chance, I trust the human capabilities.

Sorry, if that bugs the ignorant that expect someone to take control.

 

[Ebionite]

I 100% agree, so putting a life on the line without solid comprehension is hard. Exactly perfecting my point of equal capability.

To make a point you've got to show an actual argument, not just make an unsupported claim.

The err is not being human, it is blind compliance. If given a chance, I trust the human capabilities.

No, it's being human. The human condition was originally described by Cicero as a distinction between "civilized" Romans and subhuman foreigners.

"appellari ceteros homines, esse solos eos, qui essent politi propriis humanitatis artibus" (De re publica I, xvii, 28).[29] "Thus, not all men are humani or demonstrate humanitas. Only in the civilization of the Roman Empire and its social order does humanitas count as an educational value and socio-ethical virtue. Those who live outside the Empire are not yet fully 'human,' they are 'barbarians'." ~ Hendrik Birus

 

[Bthoth]

To make a point you've got to show an actual argument, not just make an unsupported claim.

I said people are equally capable. Does that bother you?

No, it's being human. The human condition was originally described by Cicero as a distinction between "civilized" Romans and subhuman foreigners.

Complete nonsense. Note the time period of cicero. Back then bathing was not even a standard unless civilized. The comparison could be how israel is treating palestinians......... uncivilized!

"appellari ceteros homines, esse solos eos, qui essent politi propriis humanitatis artibus" (De re publica I, xvii, 28).[29] "Thus, not all men are humani or demonstrate humanitas. Only in the civilization of the Roman Empire and its social order does humanitas count as an educational value and socio-ethical virtue. Those who live outside the Empire are not yet fully 'human,' they are 'barbarians'." ~ Hendrik Birus

But now I see the difference that you and I have.

You actually consider yourself civilized and the rest of us are less than. That is why you did not comprehend my comments that I consider conscious life as capable and equally capable, if given a chance.

 

[wellwisher]

I commonly read Christians posting on here saying something like: 'The Jews expected a warrior messiah who would be a king..' etc. etc. So I ask the Christians now: why do you think the Jews expected and/or expect this? Could you cite any verses in the Tanakh to this effect? If the Jews were near uniformly expecting such a messiah this belief must be backed up with something. What is that something?

Isaiah 42:1,4: “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations . . . He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth…”

The book of Isaiah is so full of hope making the Messiah a likable character. Less about fire and brimstone.

Flash Forward; When Jesus began his ministry he first went into the desert to fast and pray. He is visited by Satan, who among other things, offers Jesus all the power and wealth of the kingdoms of the earth, if Jesus would bow to Satan. But Jesus refuses.

Mathew 4:8-11 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Had Jesus accepted this offer he would have become the Messiah; head honcho of the earth. He would have had the very position needed to get the Messiah job done. But by refusing the offer, he became something better, since he stayed a free agent to God.

The problem Jesus saw was the Law and the prophesy of the Messiah was connected to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which was Satan's tree. The Mosaic law is about defining good and evil. It is not about life. It is cold like stone. Jesus's refusal created a bottleneck for the prophesies of Satan. This bottleneck would creates a political war in Heaven, with Satan and his team thrown from heaven.

Revelations 12:7-9 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan had been cordoned in heaven during the Old and the New Testament, up to Revelations. Satan is not in hell at the time of Jesus, but was the Lord of the Earth with authority over the humans. Satan was God's CEO in charge of Earth. He had the authority to give Jesus the kingdoms of the earth. But this gift had a price. The refusal by Jesus to play the role of the Messiah; tempted the son of God, altered how Satan was seen in heaven. This causes political problems and Satan gets the boot. Jesus said he came to fulfilled the law; end the reign of knowledge of good and evil and Satan.

 

[Rival]

Isaiah 42:1,4: “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations . . . He will not falter or be discouraged till he establishes justice on earth…”

The book of Isaiah is so full of hope making the Messiah a likable character. Less about fire and brimstone.

Flash Forward; When Jesus began his ministry he first went into the desert to fast and pray. He is visited by Satan, who among other things, offers Jesus all the power and wealth of the kingdoms of the earth, if Jesus would bow to Satan. But Jesus refuses.

Mathew 4:8-11 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’[e]”11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Had Jesus accepted this offer he would have become the Messiah; head honcho of the earth. He would have had the very position needed to get the Messiah job done. But by refusing the offer, he became something better, since he stayed a free agent to God.

The problem Jesus saw was the Law and the prophesy of the Messiah was connected to the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which was Satan's tree. The Mosaic law is about defining good and evil. It is not about life. It is cold like stone. Jesus's refusal created a bottleneck for the prophesies of Satan. This bottleneck would creates a political war in Heaven, with Satan and his team thrown from heaven.

Revelations 12:7-9 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they [a]did not prevail, nor was a place found for [b]them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan had been cordoned in heaven during the Old and the New Testament, up to Revelations. Satan is not in hell at the time of Jesus, but was the Lord of the Earth with authority over the humans. Satan was God's CEO in charge of Earth. He had the authority to give Jesus the kingdoms of the earth. But this gift had a price. The refusal by Jesus to play the role of the Messiah; tempted the son of God, altered how Satan was seen in heaven. This causes political problems and Satan gets the boot. Jesus said he came to fulfilled the law; end the reign of knowledge of good and evil and Satan.

This is not what I asked at all.

 

[Bthoth]

I commonly read Christians posting on here saying something like: 'The Jews expected a warrior messiah who would be a king..' etc. etc. So I ask the Christians now: why do you think the Jews expected and/or expect this? Could you cite any verses in the Tanakh to this effect? If the Jews were near uniformly expecting such a messiah this belief must be backed up with something. What is that something?

Lev 4 and 6 mention an anointed (meaning of the word 'Messiah' and often used as christ (greek) by christian) but the chapters are focused on rituals, the very rituals of animal sacrificing.

The interpretations of what messiah is, exposes a huge diversity even within jewish sects, not just from judaism to christianity. Heck, when i did my digging in the past, i realized that knowledge is what unveils which who is that claimed person, the 'who' and i even held the comprehension that quran was written to be that next level as represented in torah/tanakh and bible. Quran is a representation based on a comprehension of torah/tanakh.. then bible but without the final key; 'the name' of god.

The visions as prophecy in OT and NT were describing images of future events but without the capabilities to convey what the images (visions) actually were.

Within all three sets of religious doctrine, each convey that 1 day an unveiling will occur, the war parts are not by a messiah but of mankind itself. Even with scary items like Ezek 22 where it claims god himself will do the deed of melting israel, I dont observe that vision in such a way.

There are many opinions of what revelation (book) represents. Just like the dead sea scrolls have parts of an end time prophecy (visions). I do not take the letters between churches with much relevance as they embellish a bit too much.

If you want to read more on your own, look into light bringer. I believe even in bible jesus used the term to equate.

 

[Ebionite]

I said people are equally capable. Does that bother you?

Does Joe Biden have the mental capabilities of someone like Elon Musk?

Complete nonsense.

No, it's about the history of the conflict between common law and statism, as evidenced by the state's ability to recognise the human rights of persons and it's inability to recognise the natural rights of men.

You actually consider yourself civilized and the rest of us are less than.

You have no clue. The civilized (civilians) have a security relationship with the state. I do not.

 

[Bthoth]

Does Joe Biden have the mental capabilities of someone like Elon Musk?

IQ is not mental capabilities. Empathy, compassion and capacity for love has nothing to do with IQ. Completely different conscious capabilities but nice try.

No, it's about the history of the conflict between common law and statism, as evidenced by the state's ability to recognise the human rights of persons and it's inability to recognise the natural rights of men.

Did you just compare state (ism) with people? Israel is comparable to cicero and the ill regard for human life and equality.

You have no clue. The civilized (civilians) have a security relationship with the state. I do not.

Are you conflating topics again? OK.... israel is an apartheid and dragging the people down with them. i trust the Jew over israel.

What sickens me, is israelis are doing more damage to Jews than anything since ww2.

 

[Ebionite]

IQ is not mental capabilities. Empathy, compassion and capacity for love has nothing to do with IQ.

If everyone can the same capactity for compassion then there would be no sociopaths.

Did you just compare state (ism) with people? Israel is comparable to cicero and the ill regard for human life and equality.

The point is that the human condition is based on error, as shown by Cicero's description.

Are you conflating topics again?

Where do you think that I was conflating topics before?
I'm pointing out that you have no clue about whether I consider myself to be civilized or not.

 

[Bthoth]

If everyone can the same capactity for compassion then there would be no sociopaths.

As usual, you will find some kind of venue to condemn people.

The point is that the human condition is based on error, as shown by Cicero's description.

The human condition is beautiful and i can agree that a few are having problems.

Where do you think that I was conflating topics before?

Re read your posts, so you can see for yourself. Cicero and state(ism)

I'm pointing out that you have no clue about whether I consider myself to be civilized or not.

The uncivilized do not see the good in human beings.

 

[paarsurrey]

IQ is not mental capabilities. Empathy, compassion and capacity for love has nothing to do with IQ. Completely different conscious capabilities but nice try.

Did you just compare state (ism) with people? Israel is comparable to cicero and the ill regard for human life and equality.

Are you conflating topics again? OK.... israel is an apartheid and dragging the people down with them. i trust the Jew over israel.

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What sickens me, is israelis are doing more damage to Jews than anything since ww2.

israelis are doing more damage to Jews

They are not strictly speaking israelis, they are the power seekers Zionism people with their specific agenda as per the " Protocols", right?

Regards

 

[RabbiO]

They are not strictly speaking israelis, they are the power seekers Zionism people with their specific agenda as per the " Protocols", right?

 

[Bthoth]

They are not strictly speaking israelis, they are the power seekers Zionism people with their specific agenda as per the " Protocols", right?

Regards

no idea what that means.

I have known that Jews here in the USA have been against israel and zionism for decades and decades. And about every time, israel blows up gaza and occupies more palestinian lands the Jews here in the USA take BS for what israel is doing.

That is what is so sad. Israelis do something inhumane and Jews over here take the BS.


Israel DOES NOT represent Judaism and Jews.

 

[Rival]

/abandonthread

 

[Bthoth]

/abandonthread

I react to comments and often skip reading the topic.

Keep your patience i enjoy reading what you have to say