Jewish Messiah

[IndigoChild5559]

They are not strictly speaking israelis, they are the power seekers Zionism people with their specific agenda as per the " Protocols", right?

Regards

Why do you keep mentioning the Protocols when you have been informed that this is a well known forgery?

 

[metis]

no idea what that means.

I have known that Jews here in the USA have been against israel and zionism for decades and decades. And about every time, israel blows up gaza and occupies more palestinian lands the Jews here in the USA take BS for what israel is doing.

That is what is so sad. Israelis do something inhumane and Jews over here take the BS.


Israel DOES NOT represent Judaism and Jews.

Oh, you know so little and think you know so much.

In reality, like the old joke goes, "Two Jews equals three opinions on just about everything". At synagogue services last Friday night, we not only prayed for Israel but also for those innocents who have been killed regardless of their religious faith.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Oh, you know so little and think you know so much.

In reality, like the old joke goes, "Two Jews equals three opinions on just about everything". At synagogue services last Friday night, we not only prayed for Israel but also for those innocents who have been killed regardless of their religious faith.

So I'm curious. Have you returned to Judaism from Catholicism? Or are you trying to do both? I'm just trying to understand why someone who (last I checked) says they are Catholic would be attending synagogue. It's just curiosity, I'm certainly not judging you.

 

[Bthoth]

Oh, you know so little and think you know so much.

I show examples of what I KNOW.

You bark and say very little that helps anyone.

In reality, like the old joke goes, "Two Jews equals three opinions on just about everything".

OK. Do you know all three opinions?

NO!

At synagogue services last Friday night, we not only prayed for Israel but also for those innocents who have been killed regardless of their religious faith.

OK, that is what you did, what about the rest?

Nice to read that the innocent are observed.

Im innocent, yet you bark at me, for having evidence of what i write.

Topic is jewish messiah, do you have any idea what to look for?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

OK. Do you know all three opinions?

NO!

What makes you think Metis isn't familiar with issues that Jews disagree over? I have found him to be quite knowledgeable about Judaism.

 

[Bthoth]

What makes you think Metis isn't familiar with issues that Jews disagree over? I have found him to be quite knowledgeable about Judaism.

Metis made a claim, if there are 2 jews in a debate, that there will be 3 opinions. It was a hypothetical, as a joke. I used that joke to point out, that the party could not know all three answers.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I commonly read Christians posting on here saying something like: 'The Jews expected a warrior messiah who would be a king..' etc. etc. So I ask the Christians now: why do you think the Jews expected and/or expect this? Could you cite any verses in the Tanakh to this effect? If the Jews were near uniformly expecting such a messiah this belief must be backed up with something. What is that something?

The messianic doctrines that developed during the second half of the Second Temple period /... / were of diverse kinds, reflecting the mentality and spiritual preoccupations of different circles.

Messianic ideas developed not only by way of interpretation of biblical texts (e.g., the pesher of the Qumran community and the later midrash of rabbinic Judaism) but also by "revelations" granted to apocalyptic visionaries.

Jewish messianic enthusiasts would often base their calculations on the Book of Daniel (much as Christian millenarians would compute the end time from the "number of the beast" mentioned in Revelation 13:18). Since the high-pitched hopes generated by these calculations would often lead to disaster (or at best to severe disappointment), the Talmudic rabbis had very harsh words about "those who compute the [messianic] end."

One tradition, probably influenced by Zechariah 3–4, appears to have held a doctrine of two messianic figures, the one a high-priestly "anointed one" of the house of Aaron, the other a royal messiah of the house of David.

Bits cited from (emphasis added):

Messianism: Jewish Messianism | Encyclopedia.com

MESSIANISM: JEWISH MESSIANISM The term messianism denotes a movement, or a system of beliefs and ideas, centered on the expectation of the advent of a messiah (derived from the Hebrew mashiaḥ

www.encyclopedia.com

 

[metis]

So I'm curious. Have you returned to Judaism from Catholicism? Or are you trying to do both? I'm just trying to understand why someone who (last I checked) says they are Catholic would be attending synagogue. It's just curiosity, I'm certainly not judging you.

Thought you might ask that.

My wife is Catholic, plus shul is a 30-minute drive on a nice day, and I'm 78 and had cataracts. My theology is more along the line of Spinoza's, so where I attend is not terribly important to me. Also, I can and have done more work at the church since it's so close; mostly preparing food baskets for the poor.

At shul, I feel very much at home. I was also comfortable attending orthodox services in Israel, and I attended one of Shlomo Carlbach's synagogues there and enjoyed.

Finally, I am very suspicious of organized religion as it all too often seems to be self-centered and willing to compromise in a negative way.

How about you?

 

[metis]

@IndigoChild5559 I noticed that you didn't respond to my post, so feel free to do so. Don't worry as I got thick skin, and my wife says my skull matches.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

@IndigoChild5559 I noticed that you didn't respond to my post, so feel free to do so. Don't worry as I got thick skin, and my wife says my skull matches.

Your answer was a bit confusing, as you were not direct. It seems to say that you are not Catholic, that your wife is the one who is the Catholic, and that you are a Jew, and that you occasionally attend shul, but it never really comes right out and says so. Anyhow, since you were kind enough to ask me for my response, I would like to ask two yes/no questions, so that your answers will be clear to me.

1. Do you consider yourself Catholic?
2. Are you a Jew?

 

[metis]

1. Do you consider yourself Catholic?

No. However, I have no problem with going to mass with my wife even though I have limited participation. [same Boss-- some different opinions and approaches]

2. Are you a Jew?

Sorta. [how's that for a definitive answer?]

I went to the mikvah about 30 years ago when joining my shul, but there were problems I encountered about 7-8 years ago because of my problem driving, especially in the evening, and my age, and a "feeling" [hard to explain]. I feel much more at home there than at the church, especially lately. My heart is still at shul and in Israel.

The above probably doesn't make much sense to you, but it's the best I can do. Also, a reminder that my theology is more along the line of Spinoza, if that clarifies anything.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

No. However, I have no problem with going to mass with my wife even though I have limited participation. [same Boss-- some different opinions and approaches]

Sorta. [how's that for a definitive answer?]

I went to the mikvah about 30 years ago when joining my shul, but there were problems I encountered about 7-8 years ago because of my problem driving, especially in the evening, and my age, and a "feeling" [hard to explain]. I feel much more at home there than at the church, especially lately. My heart is still at shul and in Israel.

The above probably doesn't make much sense to you, but it's the best I can do. Also, a reminder that my theology is more along the line of Spinoza, if that clarifies anything.

Thank you. I have a better understanding now. I assume your reference to the mikvah means that you completed your conversion at that time, regardless of where you are now.

 

[metis]

Thank you. I have a better understanding now. I assume your reference to the mikvah means that you completed your conversion at that time, regardless of where you are now.

Correct. And our oldest daughter and her two kids also did as such.

As I recently told our oldest granddaughter, go where your heart takes you after going through the pros & cons.

 

[Yokefellow]

I commonly read Christians posting on here saying something like: 'The Jews expected a warrior messiah who would be a king..' etc. etc. So I ask the Christians now: why do you think the Jews expected and/or expect this?

I see a lot of folks waiting for either Messiah Ben Joseph, Messiah Ben David or both. I assume that they are who the Jews either expected at that time or are expecting now...

The Messiah in Judaism is a savior and liberator figure in Jewish eschatology who is believed to be the future redeemer of the Jews. The concept of messianism originated in Judaism, and in the Hebrew Bible a messiah is a king or High Priest of Israel traditionally anointed with holy anointing oil.

Messiah in Judaism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Could you cite any verses in the Tanakh to this effect? If the Jews were near uniformly expecting such a messiah this belief must be backed up with something. What is that something?

Here is a reference to the Four Craftsmen in Zechariah as being four Messiahs...

• Messiah Ben David
• Messiah Ben Joseph
• Elijah
• The Righteous Priest

Jewish tradition alludes to four messianic figures, called the Four Craftsmen, from a vision found in Book of Zechariah (Zechariah Hebrew text 2:1-4; traditional English texts 1:18-21). The four craftsmen are discussed in Babylonian Talmud Suk. 52b. Rav Hana bar Bizna, attributed to Rav Simeon Hasida, identifies these four craftsmen as Messiah ben David, Messiah ben Joseph, Elijah, and the Righteous Priest. Each will be involved in ushering in the Messianic age. They are mentioned in the Talmud and the Book of Zechariah.

Messiah ben Joseph - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Yokefellow]

/abandonthread

I guess I am too late to the party.

 

[annurago]

Prophet Craig Hamilton-Parker prophesied new religious teachings that would lead humanity to peace. It is a religion that encompasses all religions in the world. God the Father is the founder of 7 religions. Buddhism, Catholicism, Immortalism, Taoism, Theism, teachers, humanism. Heavenly Father is in charge of the soul, Heavenly Mother is in charge of matter. Humans are all children of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

Download books to read: original culture

The scriptures were passed down by the Messiah before he officially appeared to save humanity.. The history of Father Heaven and Mother Heaven incarnated on earth, gave birth to children, taught them culture, science, meditation, theology... Taking their children to visit hell, heaven, and earth. If you live according to Heaven's teachings, you will go to heaven. Humans from here migrated to conquer the universe.

We are in dire need of peace lovers and volunteer translators in all languages in the world, spreading the word so that humanity of 5 skin colors will be at peace, no more war. We humans share the same origin, we have the right to life, independence, freedom, happiness, equality....

 

[Brian2]

Prophet Craig Hamilton-Parker prophesied new religious teachings that would lead humanity to peace. It is a religion that encompasses all religions in the world. God the Father is the founder of 7 religions. Buddhism, Catholicism, Immortalism, Taoism, Theism, teachers, humanism. Heavenly Father is in charge of the soul, Heavenly Mother is in charge of matter. Humans are all children of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother.

Download books to read: original culture

The scriptures were passed down by the Messiah before he officially appeared to save humanity.. The history of Father Heaven and Mother Heaven incarnated on earth, gave birth to children, taught them culture, science, meditation, theology... Taking their children to visit hell, heaven, and earth. If you live according to Heaven's teachings, you will go to heaven. Humans from here migrated to conquer the universe.

We are in dire need of peace lovers and volunteer translators in all languages in the world, spreading the word so that humanity of 5 skin colors will be at peace, no more war. We humans share the same origin, we have the right to life, independence, freedom, happiness, equality....

Hi, welcome to the forum. Interesting looking religion.
You are probably going to get more views and reaction if you start your own thread. Give it a catchy title and put it in a forum that suites. If you want more debate, this forum (Religious Debates) is fine, otherwise you can go to Religious Topics and choose a forum that you would like to put the first post of your thread into.

 

[paarsurrey]

I commonly read Christians posting on here saying something like: 'The Jews expected a warrior messiah who would be a king..' etc. etc. So I ask the Christians now: why do you think the Jews expected and/or expect this? Could you cite any verses in the Tanakh to this effect? If the Jews were near uniformly expecting such a messiah this belief must be backed up with something. What is that something?

They have nothing to back up as the Israelite Messiah, I understand, is spiritual/religious while (Zionist/)Jewish warrior Messiah is a worldly e-longed concept, please, right?

Regards