jewish

[IndigoChild5559]

Here's an even more interesting question: Besides Christianity has there ever been a major attempt in Judaism for a prophet or some other divine source to be the proclaimed savior of the religion? And if not, why? I find it odd given how long that Judaism has existed, in the timespan of a few thousand years, but the only person they brought forth from it was Jesus. Why is that?

There have been many false messiahs besides Jesus. Sabbatai Zevi is a famous one. And there was Bar Kokhba, which came closer to being the messiah than anyone else, but who also ultimately failed.

As far as "a savior like jesus," it is not the job of the messiah to save us from our sins. The job of the messiah is to rule during the idylic messianic era. The "savor" type of messiah is unique to Christianity. The Tanakh says in Isaiah 43:11 "I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior."

 

[IndigoChild5559]

they don't sound like big deals

They go against CORE teachings of Judaism, so yes, they are big deals.

I personally find that Jesus taught Torah, especially the interpretation of the Pharisaical school of Hillel. He said not even a brush stroke would pass away from the law until heaven and earth has passed away. However, we take great issue with the claims he made of himself, that he was the messiah and had some sort of unique relationship to God that other men did not have.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

im sure alot if not all of jewish people arent losing sleep over it either

semantics

We don't lose our sleep over it because we consider Jesus to be irrelevant.

 

[stvdv]

Well, depending on the gospel Jesus would qualify as one who is "messing with other faiths". The quote I remember is:

Matthew 12:6 But I tell you that something greater than the temple is here.

Not a good example considering the context showing why Jesus replied to these faultfinding hypocrites (12:1)

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Not a good example considering the context showing why Jesus replied to these faultfinding hypocrites (12:1)

I'm not sure how you are using the word Hypocrite. I understand hypocrisy to be when a person preaches one thing but does not DO it. There is nothing hypocritical about teaching that temple sacrifices are a must, and then going and making those sacrifices.

 

[stvdv]

He never preached against idol worship, as far as I know. That's a big deal

I don't consider that a big deal at all

I stayed with a Master for 10 years and listened to more than a few hundred discourses

My Master doesn't have this habit of faultfinding in others, which normal people have. Also real Masters, IME, don't have the habit to point fingers at others, and advise us to do the same.

BUT my Master did emphasize the good, encouraging us to do good all the time

Whatever you give energy, that will grow, hence it makes perfect sense to criticize less and point out the good in others and avoid pointing out faults in others

 

[stvdv]

I'm not sure how you are using the word Hypocrite. I understand hypocrisy to be when a person preaches one thing but does not DO it. There is nothing hypocritical about teaching that temple sacrifices are a must, and then going and making those sacrifices.

I was referring to the previous verses (12:1+), trying to provoke Jesus by faultfinding

IF that happens then I totally understand Jesus' reply.

 

[stvdv]

Today, there are still Jews who agree. Here are some of our stories.”
Our Stories

Thank you for sharing these stories

I just read the first one now...beautiful story. I especially love the pink line, that is for me the best of living a Spiritual life

And I loved the part where the priest stopped his sermon and gave the girl a second chance (nice proof, and also my experience, that God indeed speaks to us, if we are open for it)

"At the age of 14, and for the first time in my life, I heard that God actually exists and that He really loves me. But I especially loved that God wanted a relationship with me! I couldn’t get over it. I could only keep thinking, Wow! God? Really? This impossibly high, omnipresent, omnipotent God? He actually wants a relationship with me? Are you kidding me? "

 

[stvdv]

I'm not sure how you are using the word Hypocrite. I understand hypocrisy to be when a person preaches one thing but does not DO it

Exactly, that's how I use the word Hypocrite also

There is nothing hypocritical about teaching that temple sacrifices are a must, and then going and making those sacrifices.

Of course not hypocritical
Sincere temple practices are fine IMO

Did Jesus say sincere temple practices are wrong? I did not read that and can't believe Jesus did

I can believe that those who narrated the story twisted Jesus' words though. Just check RF, most posts are in debates forum, and faultfinding of other Religion seems a favorite thing to do

Evolution slowly progresses, which proves that this faultfinding probably was even worse 2000 years ago

 

[firedragon]

dont know much aboit their faith. do they reject jesus completely or do they see him as gods son but reject him anyway?

Jews are generally not into this discussion or theological considerations at all. I am no Jew but this is just my anecdotal experience with them. Maybe in the past due to Christian persecution or maybe even proselytising Jews did make some claims about Jesus and his father being Pandera which was derogatory. But in general Jews are not interested. They have their faith and that's all they want.

Jews don't like the Septuagint. I was told some of them even have a day of condemnation against the septuagint. The Christians predominantly use the Septuagint.

Jews don't believe God has a son like Christians believe. Jews don't believe anything to do with Jesus. So that's that.

 

[1213]

There have been a few Messiah claimants who were Jewish. But the requirements for someone to be a candidate, much less the real deal, are very high. The three criteria I remember are:

1. ushers in an era of world peace
2. rebuilds the temple
3. gathers all Jewish people wherever they are to Jerusalem and leads them in a Jewish theocracy

Until there's world peace, it's easy to reject any messiah claimant.

I think it is wrong to mix up Messianic era to the idea of coming Messiah. Bible has many that were called messiah, anointed one. For example prophets, priests and kings were anointed for their job. And Bible (Old Testament) tells that there would come a prophet like Moses.

Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst of you, of your brothers, like me; to him you shall listen;
Deu. 18:15

Jesus is a prophet like Moses, he made the new covenant with people, as was foretold in the Bible. Because of that, he can be called the Messiah, even though the Messianic era is not yet visible as clearly as some would like to see.

Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your seed, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, that you may live. Yahweh your God will put all these curses on your enemies, and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. You shall return and obey the voice of Yahweh, and do all his commandments which I command you this day. Yahweh your God will make you plenteous in all the work of your hand, in the fruit of your body, and in the fruit of your cattle, and in the fruit of your ground, for good: for Yahweh will again rejoice over you for good, as he rejoiced over your fathers;
Deuteronomy 30:6-9

For finding fault with them, he said, "Behold, the days come," says the Lord, "That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; For they didn't continue in my covenant, And I disregarded them," says the Lord. "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days," says the Lord; "I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be to them a God, And they will be to me a people. They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, Every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' For all will know me, From the least of them to the greatest of them. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more."
Hebrews 8:8-12 (Jeremiah 31:31-34)

He took the cup, gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, "All of you drink it, for this is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the remission of sins.
Matthew 26:27-28

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jews don't like the Septuagint.

All translations are inferior to the original language manuscripts. A translation simply can't capture everything accurately, even with scholarly translators and the best of intentions. Anyone who has ever tried to translate a document from one language to another understands this. The LXX isn't even a good translation. There are places it deviates from what is clearly in the Hebrew. Christians prefer the greek translation because these mistakes fit in better with Christian theology.

 

[Colt]

dont know much aboit their faith. do they reject jesus completely or do they see him as gods son but reject him anyway?

Abraham was a chosen individual. The point was to establish a monotheistic culture for the reception of the Son of God incarnate on earth. But Judaism evolved into a religion all about being chosen and endless traditions and holidays around the history of the "chosen people", long since loosing sight of what they were chosen for. As Judaism evolved a nationalist ideology, they developed rigid, fixed ideas about a Jewish Messiah which the Son of God could never live up to. The problem wasn't Jesus the problem was those inflexible ideas. Had the Jews only understood the "kingdom" to be spiritual and their calling to be preachers and teachers of the spiritual fellowship for ALL mankind then they would have been in a better place to receive the Son. The Kingdom of Heaven as taught by Jesus would develop over a long period of time.

IMOP

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Had the Jews only understood the "kingdom" to be spiritual and their calling to be preachers and teachers of the spiritual fellowship for ALL mankind then they would have been in a better place to receive the Son. The Kingdom of Heaven as taught by Jesus would develop over a long period of time.

IMOP

If you would actually read your "old testament," you would see that it talks about a messianic era here on earth. Peace between nations. Justice. It is not spiritual. And since Jesus didn't rule or usher in that idyllic time, he is not eligible to be called the messiah.

 

[BilliardsBall]

dont know much aboit their faith. do they reject jesus completely or do they see him as gods son but reject him anyway?

Some Jews consider Jesus a false teacher, some a sort of black magician who did works and led people astray.

Many Jews adore their Messiah, however, and the entire New Testament was written by Jewish people!

 

[Colt]

If you would actually read your "old testament," you would see that it talks about a messianic era here on earth. Peace between nations. Justice. It is not spiritual. And since Jesus didn't rule or usher in that idyllic time, he is not eligible to be called the messiah.

Jesus established a spiritual fellowship of believers. he called it the "Kingdom of Heaven". (God would be king in the heart of the believer). His fellowship is open to ALL who would come, not an especially chosen few. Eventually the original Gospel will subdue the world. But of course, you don't agree as I said in my post, you have fixed interpretations. The Jewish concept of a Messiah never happened, the Temple is gone and has been Islam for 1400+ years. So while Judaism continues to reject the Fathers message in his Son, the Jewish Messiah is still AWAL!



John 18:33-38
King James Version

33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?

34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


IMOP

 

[mangalavara]

dont know much aboit their faith. do they reject jesus completely or do they see him as gods son but reject him anyway?

I think Jews today believe that Jesus of Nazareth was actually John the Baptizer, who was beheaded. He was beheaded because he sang to King Herod Agrippa, 'It is unlawful for you to have a wife.'

Take what I say with a grain of salt of the earth.

 

[firedragon]

All translations are inferior to the original language manuscripts. A translation simply can't capture everything accurately, even with scholarly translators and the best of intentions. Anyone who has ever tried to translate a document from one language to another understands this. The LXX isn't even a good translation. There are places it deviates from what is clearly in the Hebrew. Christians prefer the greek translation because these mistakes fit in better with Christian theology.

Yes. Agreed.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Some Jews consider Jesus a false teacher, some a sort of black magician who did works and led people astray.

Many Jews adore their Messiah, however, and the entire New Testament was written by Jewish people!

I've never met any Jews that think he was a black magician.

And I wouldn't say many Jews believe he is the messiah -- only a teeny tiny proportion of us are so misled.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Jesus established a spiritual fellowship of believers. he called it the "Kingdom of Heaven".

Again, this is simply not the description of what the messiah is to do.