Jews, Ezra and Qur'an

[mojtaba]

Is it odd to you that Muhammad would address the alyahoodu as though believing Ezra is the son of god is something they all do?

Prophet Muhammad(sawaws) didn't address the alyahoodu as though believing Ezra is the son of god is something they all do.

The people of time of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and Prophet himself knew that who are those Jews that believe in that incorrect thing. So, Allah(swt) did not adress all the Jews. He only adressed a specific group of known Jews. You are indeed talking about that verse in the time that there is not that group of Jews.

 

[Tumah]

Prophet Muhammad(sawaws) didn't address the alyahoodu as though believing Ezra is the son of god is something they all do.

The people of time of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and Prophet himself knew that who are those Jews that believe in that incorrect thing. So, Allah(swt) did not adress all the Jews. He only adressed a specific group of known Jews. You are indeed talking about that verse in the time that there is not that group of Jews.

What you would like it to say, it does not say. In fact, the contrast that is present in the ayah - that the vast majority of Christians believe that Jesus is the son of god, indicates the exact opposite.

 

[Rival]

I know what Bible says about Jesus(pbuh).

Despite I believe it's corrupted, I find there is big distinction between teaching/words of Jesus(pbuh).
and teaching of Church.

Jesus(pbuh) said: I pray to God.
Chruch: no, Jesus (pbuh) you are God too.

Is not joke ?

When I'm out of bed I will create a debate thread for you and I on this. My only requirement is that you stop believing the Bible is corrupted, or else nothing I say will hold any water for you. Deal?

 

[Limo]

First, let us agree that Jewish history have been changed a lot and many major incidents have been omitted intentionally.
The vague proof on that is the history of El-Messiah. You'll not find a ward in any ancient Jewish book about El-Messiah. Even a little to say "there were someone who pertained to be El-Messiah", nothing about Mariam, her life in Holy of Holies, her birth without hatband, accused of Adultery, a false prophet, crucifixion or failed crucifixion ,,,, anything not a single ward (Rival you're Christian and understand what I mean)

Allah told us in Quran that it happened one day that a group of Jews believed that someone called Uzair (not Ezra) at a certain time in a certain place.
As Always, Quran is not a book of history. It gives examples of something for Muslims to do or to avoid.
We're not meant about where and when ,,,,,,

You're asking for a proof. We don't have a concrete proof in the time-being. If we don't have a proof it doesn't mean it didn't happen. There are many things in your books which there is no proof that it happened or even a person existed like Ibrahim, Noah, Jacob, Isaac,,,, anyone names in Bible

According to modern scholars and archeologists "Jesus didn't exist". don't tell me about imposed/forged a few wards in Josephus or twisted wards in Tacitus.... even though it's just a few wards but no history of Jesus at all.

Allah said "They imitate the saying of the disbelievers of old". This is a real proof that Quran is from Almighty as the modern studies have proofed (by Christian scholars by the way) the Trinity, God the Son or God's Son, or Son the God, Resurrection, Salvation, Virgin birth, the 3 stars,,,,, all these are cloned and was normal attributes from many pagan religions at the time of Nicaea.

 

[Rival]

First, let us agree that Jewish history have been changed a lot and many major incidents have been omitted intentionally.

 

[Rival]

Prophet Muhammad(sawaws) didn't address the alyahoodu as though believing Ezra is the son of god is something they all do.

"The" Jews not, "Some" Jews. It doesn't say 'some' of alyahoodu.

 

[firedragon]

The Jews call Uzair [Ezra] a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah.

Notice for Ezra it says (a son) but for Jesus it says (the son). So in a sense we are all children of God which I think is an acceptable explanation of the statement.

Thats wrong mate. Both say Ubnoo which means 'is son'. Christ is son. Uzair is son. Quran chapter 9 verse 30.

 

[Limo]

Rival, you're most properly a closed mind Egyptian Coptic who doesn't know anything about the polite rules of debate.
How come you forge my comments like this.

Bloah blah blah. I know nothing about Jewish or Christian history.

Blah blah blah Jews corrupted their own texts just because it doesn't agree with mine.

Blah blah I think the Couuncil of Nicaea had something to do with Jesus' deity and the trinity. I have just demonstrated that I know nothing.

My book is right, even though I have no proof apart from my own beliefs.

Blah blah...it's all the Jews' fault...blah blah..

Okay, thanks for admitting that.

Any scholar knows what I'm saying but I'll tell you that you're like most Eastern Orthodox Egyptian or any eastern.
You don't know about your religion history.
I challenge you if you've read history of councils or your books.
I challenge you if you've read or following any modern study of your books especially the American professors scholars.

You don't have logic to debate.
You think by copying and pasting you can convert some Muslims.

Simple Questions that I know that first one has pushed you high ,
Give me single proof outside New Testimony books >>>

1. Did character Jesus-Christ as attributed in Nicaea exist ?
2. Was character Jesus-Christ crucifixed ?
3. Was character Jesus-Christ resurrected ?

و السلام على منن اتبع الهدى

 

[firedragon]

If you look at the next ayah, you can see that he's talking about the present (to the writing of the Qur'an). If you look at the previous ayah, you can see that he's talking about the present. The Christians in the present believed that Jesus was a god.

So where in the surah do you see that he's talking about some other time period.

But the verse says wakaalathi. They said. Its in the past.

 

[Limo]

Where in any Jewish book any single ward about character Jesus-Christ ?

 

[Rival]

Any scholar knows what I'm saying but I'll tell you that you're like most Eastern Orthodox Egyptian or any eastern.
You don't know about your religion history.
I challenge you if you've read history of councils or your books.
I challenge you if you've read or following any modern study of your books especially the American professors scholars.

You don't have logic to debate.
You think by copying and pasting you can convert some Muslims.

Simple Questions that I know that first one has pushed you high ,
Give me single proof outside New Testimony books >>>

1. Did character Jesus-Christ as attributed in Nicaea exist ?
2. Was character Jesus-Christ crucifixed ?
3. Was character Jesus-Christ resurrected ?

و السلام على منن اتبع الهدى

Have you read the New Testament?

If you have, you know the answer.

Yes
Yes
Yes

I read books, I watch videos, I do research. You believe a book that came six hundred years after the fact, with nothing at all to back it up, call the Bible corrupt and go on your merry way.

But none of this answers my question.

Where is the proof that the Jews worshipped Ezra?

Seriously, stop attacking my position. This is not the topic.

 

[firedragon]

We read in surah 9 ayah 30:

"The Jews call Uzair [Ezra] the son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is the saying from their mouth; (in this) they imitate what the unbelievers of the old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth."

Whilst the Christians preach Jesus is the Divine Son, I have never heard or read of any Jews, past or present, call Ezra the son of G-d. As far as I'm aware, this would be blasphemy and has never happened.

So here are my questions:

1) Is there any historical proof of this outside of the Qur'an?

2) Where do RF's Jewish members think this idea came from?

Blessings

Edit: bad translation fixed.

There is no historic proof.
It doesnt say Ezra.
This idea came from some scholars who thought it was Ezra. It was Uzair and they dont know who this is. Same as Hamaan. They didnt know who that was either.

 

[Rival]

I'm not answering any more off-topic questions about my faith. I will not have Muslims attack my Christianity in a thread about Jewish worship of Ezra in the Qur'an.

If you can't prove your position without attacking others, then I will have to conclude that you are wrong.

 

[Rival]

There is no historic proof.
It doesnt say Ezra.
This idea came from some scholars who thought it was Ezra. It was Uzair and they dont know who this is. Same as Hamaan. They didnt know who that was either.

Any proof of Jews worshipping a guy called Uzair, then?

 

[Limo]

As Rival deleted it, I'm posting here to document his/her forgery of my wards.
This usually happens when someone doesn't have an answer but after sometime she/he realizes that he can do better...... we always say we're people of love


Dear Rival,
scream higher and higher , you'll feel better

Bloah blah blah. I know nothing about Jewish or Christian history.

Blah blah blah Jews corrupted their own texts just because it doesn't agree with mine.

Blah blah I think the Couuncil of Nicaea had something to do with Jesus' deity and the trinity. I have just demonstrated that I know nothing.

My book is right, even though I have no proof apart from my own beliefs.

Blah blah...it's all the Jews' fault...blah blah..

Okay, thanks for admitting that.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

There is no historic proof.
It doesnt say Ezra.
This idea came from some scholars who thought it was Ezra. It was Uzair and they dont know who this is. Same as Hamaan. They didnt know who that was either.

So basically what you're saying is, since the Quran is insufficient historical evidence (despite multiple translations saying Uzair is Ezra), that the Quran can't be trusted as a historical source. Neat.

Any particular reason you know better than Islamic scholars as to who Uzair is or, rather, is not?

 

[Rival]

As Rival deleted it, I'm posting here to document his/her forgery of my wards.
This usually happens when someone doesn't have an answer but after sometime she/he realizes that he can do better...... we always say we're people of love


Dear Rival,
scream higher and higher , you'll feel better

I deleted it because it was against the rules.

And I want to scream because of Muslim idiocy.

By the way, I'm not a Copt.

 

[Rival]

Is there a Muslim explanation that doesn't include,

"The Jews deliberately changed it"?

Do you not think that maybe, your text is wrong and the Jewish text is right? Just because the Jewish Scriptures don't agree with yours it doesn't mean theirs has changed; it probably means yours is wrong.

 

[firedragon]

Any proof of Jews worshipping a guy called Uzair, then?

Nope.

 

[Limo]

I deleted it because it was against the rules.

And I want to scream because of Muslim idiocy.

By the way, I'm not a Copt.

Rules of the forum. Right ?
But If rules of the forum allow, would you delete it ?

What about your religion rules ?
Does it allow lie and connect wards to others that they didn't say ?

Regardless if you're Copt. or not. (You may be Lebanese or Iraqi or anything else).
Unfortunately, Most of Eastern Orthodox have no patience to debate. They just lose their temper quickly.