Job: is God tricked by Satan?

[74x12]

Jews simply have an entirely different take. In Judaism, angels have no free will, so they cannot rebel. Satan works for God--he can only do those things which God specifically allows, as we see in Job. Ultimately, the buck stops with God, not Satan, for what happened to Job. Satan is the adversary and the accuser -- his job is to create situations where faith can be tempted, in order for free will to exist. It's a nasty job, but someone's gotta do it.

That might be true for certain sects of modern Judaism; but if you look at ancient Judaism the idea of rebellious angels was definitely a thing. For example you probably know that fragments of the book of Enoch were found among the dead sea scrolls. According to the book of Enoch there were certainly rebellious angels who came down on Mt Hermon and made a pact to all rebel against God. Also you have fragments of the book of Giants among the dead sea scrolls.

If you read the so called book of Jasher which is a Jewish Midrash (not the same book of Jasher mentioned in the scriptures) you'll see that Satan is definitely evil according to that. According to it; he even murders Sarah.

In the so called Slavonic book of Enoch (different from the Ethiopic one) there is a whole class of angels that sinned called the Grigori. It seems like an entire level of heaven sinned. This on top of the other angels who rebelled on Mt Hermon.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That might be true for certain sects of modern Judaism; but if you look at ancient Judaism the idea of rebellious angels was definitely a thing. For example you probably know that fragments of the book of Enoch were found among the dead sea scrolls. According to the book of Enoch there were certainly rebellious angels who came down on Mt Hermon and made a pact to all rebel against God. Also you have fragments of the book of Giants among the dead sea scrolls.

If you read the so called book of Jasher which is a Jewish Midrash (not the same book of Jasher mentioned in the scriptures) you'll see that Satan is definitely evil according to that. According to it; he even murders Sarah.

In the so called Slavonic book of Enoch (different from the Ethiopic one) there is a whole class of angels that sinned called the Grigori. It seems like an entire level of heaven sinned. This on top of the other angels who rebelled on Mt Hermon.

That's a bit like replying to a Christian that if you go back before Nicea, you had Christians who didn't believe Jesus was God. My point is that just as Christianity eliminated certain interpretations from its orthodoxy, so has Judaism. Enoch is NOT considered part of Jewish canon.

 

[74x12]

Enoch is NOT considered part of Jewish canon.

Well it's not Christian canon either. At least not for most Christians. I used it for historical context. At the time Christianity began (1st century AD) many Jews believed in angels who rebelled against God and that would include Satan. That's how I interpret the book of Job and it does make sense.

 

[Hawkins]

Bible Gateway passage: Job 1 - New English Translation

In this passage, Satan manages to talk God into giving him free reign to visit all sorts of evil on one family. There's no downside mentioned for Satan: nothing he would have to give up if he loses the bet.

Satan seems to have managed to get exactly what he wanted with no downside, while God suffers quite a bit (if he has empathy for Job and his family, that is).

This sure sounds to me like God was tricked by Satan. Satan saw an opportunity, jumped at it, and God took the bait.

Thoughts?

Ancient humans don't have the ability to convey a theory. Human ancient histories are usually in the form of a myth. At best (even under God's supervision) humans can convey stories. God thus embedded information within these ancient stories. The scope of freewill allows the interaction between the much more capable and much more intelligent angels and the much less capable humans. The fallen angels such as Satan are particularly interested in humans classified as "direct servant" of God. Satan puts triple the effort in converting those he deemed "close to God". This is allowed by the scope of freewill (Satan has his own freewill to be exercised). Satan tried his best to have Job captive. Satan however failed even with minimal interference from God, Job sometimes had doubts though.