Joel Osteen, con artist

[doppelganger]

He's an entertainer, and he's selling a sense of happiness to those made happy by the type of product he has to offer. I don't begrudge him his income since he has a remarkable talent for it and has figured out a way to deliver a message that resonates, obviously, with A LOT of people. He should be paying regular taxes on it though, just like any other entertainer, as should any corporate/church entity he has set up to run it through.

 

[painted wolf]

Welcome to modern America.

We have become such a corporate, money hungry society that even our religion is reflecting that.
A preacher that tells you that giving money to god is an investment and you will get rich doing it, sells. Everyone wants to win the lottery.

Poor preachers are thought to be unsuccessful and clearly not being taken care of by god. (thus they can't be all that faithful now can they?)

The line between big business and big religion is all but gone in America. We worship capitolism at WalMart and worship god in the churches equivalent (complete with stores).

wa:do

 

[porkchop]

WHY do people fall for this nonsense? WHY aren't these people exposed on national TV, shut down, publicly humiliated? Why does no one defend the poor, low-income, insecure people who waste their precious time and money on this guy?

Out of sheer curiosity, I went to church one Sunday at Joel Osteen's mega-church in Houston. There were easily 7,000 people in the former basketball stadium, with gigantic plasma screen TVs, a fog machine, mood lighting, etc. I knew from the second I heard Joel Osteen on CNN a year ago that he was a con man, because a caller asked him and his bejeweled wife what percentage of the church's income they took home, and he wouldn't answer. But what surprised me was how obvious it is even inside the church. (Joel and his wife pictured below. See the enormity of the church here.)

He just tells cute stories, and tells people what they want to hear. Then it's off to the massive bookstore inside the church. Send the kids to the separate, children's bookstore. Go to a different counter, where they are selling DVD's of today's sermon for $7.95.

There was even a brochure to do mission/charity work in Jamaica....if you wanted to "volunteer" you had to pay $1600. You could go to an all-expense paid resort in Jamaica for less! With group/church/non-taxable rates, they're probably making a profit, then taking credit for the charity work their poor, deluded "volunteers" are doing!

This is a symptom of the evangelical "non-denominational" mega church in America. No taxes. Your customers pay in cash (perhaps 10% of their income, if they are tithing). Book sales. DVD's. The band and the singers and the ushers are all probably volunteers. No democratic participation from the members. No financial oversight.

It all comes down to one thing: big, stinking profit for one guy, and all he has to do is spout nonsense for an hour a week. He actually inherited the church from his father.

It was the exact same story at the "Solid Rock" church in Dayton, which I also attended one Sunday with some friends, out of curiosity. This monstrous mega-church by the highway is known for its monstrous "touchdown Jesus", which is so distracting as you drive past its a wonder there aren't more car accidents there (shown below).

The son of the guy who founded Solid Rock gave the sermon, and my friends and I are pretty sure he was actually drunk! He said his parents were doing mission work in South Africa. Yeah, probably at some white-sanded resort.

Another pastor, a black guy with bright white teeth and a suit that looked like it was made in Italy, gave a mini-sermon in which he thanked the Lord for saving him, even though he lost his way years ago and went to jail for credit card fraud. After that, he said, he got saved, but lost his way and went to jail again. But the second time he got saved for real!

In other words, he found a racket that is actually legal in the U.S....the private, "non-denominational" evangelical racket.

I have to agree with you here, and unfortunately there are many people on what i call God-LESS channels taking peoples money, even suggesting they can donate thetr house if they want!! People like Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, to name but a few are con artists and lie regularly, one bloke was giving out green hankies, like they would answer your prayers or something, for a hefty amount!!:cover:
And i can not get over the pictures youv'e posted of the mega church! Ridiculous, they should be giving the money to the poor and needy, not spending it on that rubbish! I despair of it all, i really do.:cover:

 

[Buttercup]

one bloke was giving out green hankies, like they would answer your prayers or something, for a hefty amount!!:cover:

I've heard of this practice for years and years . Hand out some frivolous trinket for a donation and voila, you have instant blessings. A huge part of me thinks people who fall for this nonsense get what they deserve. The smaller part that's left over thinks the government ought to investigate these charlatans.

 

[doppelganger]

I've heard of this practice for years and years . Hand out some frivolous trinket for a donation and voila, you have instant blessings. A huge part of me thinks people who fall for this nonsense get what they deserve. The smaller part that's left over thinks the government ought to investigate these charlatans.

Ah the sweet irony of would-be "protestants" engaging in this sort of behavior . . .

Indulgence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Storm]

I don't see how he's a con artist, honestly. Scum, to be sure, exploiting people's faith, but where's the scam?

 

[Buttercup]

Ah the sweet irony of would-be "protestants" engaging in this sort of behavior . . .

Indulgence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now that would be fun to watch.

 

[doppelganger]

Now that would be fun to watch.

You're watching it. What Osteen, Copeland, Treat and others are doing is just a modern version of selling indulgences.

 

[Zephyr]

I am clearly in the wrong business.

 

[Smoke]

I've watched Joel Osteen from time to time. I kind of like him. I consider him a good motivational speaker. I imagine his congregation likes him because he makes them feel good.

It's true, he inherited the church from his father, and on one show I watched he said he intended to leave it to his son. ("Just think," he told him, "someday all this will be yours.") Religion is the family business, period. However, when I consider all the ugly, hateful, religious leaders who are raking in the cash as surely as Joel Osteen is, I think Osteen represents not a debasement of American Evangelicalism -- which is one of the worst religions in the world, in my book -- but a distinct improvement.

I mean, seriously. If he were out there stirring people up with nonsense about the Last Days, America being God's chosen nation, and the gay threat to America, then I'd have a problem with him.

 

[eugenius]

You're watching it. What Osteen, Copeland, Treat and others are doing is just a modern version of selling indulgences.

+1

The flipside is the his "consumers" must see some sort of value in what they are "buying". Some people want to spend money on clothes, drugs, cars, houses etc and others on motivational speakers to make the feel good and give them direction, which is totally fine in my book.

The problem I have is the deceit that he uses in going about it and his True motivation, which I believe to be money and fame, but then again, isn't this what all Americans want?

 

[Beaudreaux]

I have to agree with you here, and unfortunately there are many people on what i call God-LESS channels taking peoples money, even suggesting they can donate thetr house if they want!! People like Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, to name but a few are con artists and lie regularly, one bloke was giving out green hankies, like they would answer your prayers or something, for a hefty amount!!:cover:
And i can not get over the pictures youv'e posted of the mega church! Ridiculous, they should be giving the money to the poor and needy, not spending it on that rubbish! I despair of it all, i really do.:cover:

I still say he's doing nothing wrong. I think this thread is upside down. Consider:

• This guy puts on a show and says to people that God wants them to give money to his church. He quotes scripture that backs this up.
• People watch this guy and, because they believe in God and the Bible, send him their money even if they can't afford it.

So, who's the knucklehead here? Who bears responsibility? Is there a way of thinking that might be contributing to this unfortunate situation?

 

[J Bryson]

Yes, I find him to be less reprehensible than many other megachurch pastors out there. He spends his money on cars and flashy clothes. Many of his fellow men and women of the cloth spend their money on advancing anti-gay, anti-secular political causes. I'd rather deal with a refreshingly open charlatan like Osteen than a Robertson or Falwell any day of the week.

 

[eugenius]

Yes, I find him to be less reprehensible than many other megachurch pastors out there. He spends his money on cars and flashy clothes. Many of his fellow men and women of the cloth spend their money on advancing anti-gay, anti-secular political causes. I'd rather deal with a refreshingly open charlatan like Osteen than a Robertson or Falwell any day of the week.

agree

I guess the bottom line is what is his true motivation and do his "fans" recognize this?

 

[J Bryson]

agree

I guess the bottom line is what is his true motivation and do his "fans" recognize this?

Probably not. But he gives them service for their money, just like any prostitute.

 

[3.14]

people like this are the reason i no longer crave money or power, i know i am able to con people like that, if i realy wanted to i could be living in a golden villa right now but my morals are worth more to me that that.

sentance's i use to comfort my mom

well i can always just make
music
go in the army
work as human lab rat
human billboard
criminal
below this it doesn't realy comfort her anymore, it make's her ponder if it would be more mercyfull to put me out of my missery

phone salesman(not the one that sells phones the one that uses phones to sell)
go on a reality show
womans shoe salesman
and way way way down the list:
tele evengilist

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'm not saying I think Joel Osteen is doing anything illegal.

I'm saying there should be citizens, advocacy groups, investigative journalists to warn the average person about this kind of thing. And tax laws should be changed. The "religious" nature of a business shouldn't have anything to do with its tax-exempt status. It should have to do with other considerations.

Imagine the libraries, museums, infrastructure, hospitals, shelters, schools that could be built, or how much real charity work could be done, with the millions Osteen rakes in. 60 Minutes reported he gets $43 million a year from church donations, another 30 million from TV viewers, and a 13 million advance on one of the books he published. The basketball stadium - turned church cost 100 million to renovate. And then consider the time and energy the "volunteers" spend on their $1600 mission trips.

All these resources are going to one purpose: to concentrate wealth in the hands of one guy, and his descendants. We're back to the Divine Right of Kings. Of course Osteen is just one of many examples in America...

 

[lunamoth]

Wow, that's just plain creepy! And the statue too.

 

[Buttercup]

I'm not saying I think Joel Osteen is doing anything illegal.

I didn't think you were claiming he does anything illegal and I agree with your complaint wholeheartedly. I'd also like to add that a person doesn't have to be doing something illegal to be considered a con man. You just need a stupid audience.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I remember learning at the Solid Rock church that the "statue" is made of Styrofoam around a wood skeleton, with a weather-proof coating. In short, it's a phony statue. A trick. A cheap imitation.

It's a perfect metaphor for the church itself.