John 14:6

[Trailblazer]

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Trailblazer you make a bold statement.. There can be only one truth but more than one religion contains that truth.

The truth is "Jesus established a CHURCH before he ascended"!
Scriptures tell you "He promised to remain ALWAYS with the very same church!"
One TRUTH means it cannot be Baha'u'llah! This church was started by a man 1900 years after Jesus established his Church the ONLY Church is is ALWAYS with to the very end of the world!

John 1 In the beginning was the Word, the words was GOD; The word (God) became flesh and lived among us!
Thomas declared in the scriptures "Jesus is his God!" Jesus does NOT correct Thomas Jesus replies; "Blessed are others who believe the same!"

Christianity is the Truth in spite of the fact that many false beliefs have crept into that Truth. However, the salient point is that the Christian Dispensation was superseded by the Revelation of Muhammad and later by the Revelations of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

It doesn't matter what the Bible says, because the Christian dispensation has been superseded by the Revelations from God that came after the Bible was written.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

According to my beliefs by an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is only according to one religion at a time. Thus each religion only applies to the age (dispensation) in which it is revealed.

Once a Messenger of God has completed His Mission on earth, what He revealed is pertinent only until the next Messenger of God appears. Moreover, every time God sends a new Messenger, His Revelation abrogates all the Revelations that came before it and the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is according to the religion that He establishes.

I believe that the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is through the latest Manifestation of God and I believe that Manifestation is Baha'u'llah.

I believe that Baha’u’llah is the Messenger (Manifestation of God) for the present dispensation and God wants us to recognize and follow Him.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

 

[Trailblazer]

If you base all this on the kjv bible i can understand why you would be stuck on this.

Can you explain why you said this about the KJV? Do you think the KJV promotes the Trinity doctrine?
What other Bible translation(s) would you recommend?

 

[Bree]

Can you explain why you said this about the KJV? Do you think the KJV promotes the Trinity doctrine?
What other Bible translation(s) would you recommend?

the kjv bible was written in 1611 when the english language was very different to what it is today. So if you are an english speaker today reading it, you could certainly come to some wrong conclusions. Yes the trinity can be read into the text because of the incorrect translation of the greek verb proskynéo being rendered as “worship”
The word can simply mean to 'bow down' as a gesture of respect and this is why it is said that Jesus was 'worshiped' and only God can receive worship. If true then yes, maybe Jesus is God....but the word does not mean 'worship' in this sense.

But it does have its good points and the main one being it used the name of God “Jehovah” in a few verses, and it used the word “LORD” in capital letters in other verses in the Hebrew Scriptures where the personal name of God originally occurred. When you see the word “LORD” in capital letters in the KJV you know it means Jehovah because it is translating the 'tetragrammaton' ...the hebrew name of God. Thanks to this, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society (JW's) came to and understanding that Jehovah is God and Jesus is not. So the KJV does have its merits and this certainly helped us JW's in the 1800's come to the right conclusion of the difference between Jesus and his father Jehovah.

However, the problem with the KJV is that its translators used their understanding of 'classical greek' as the basis for the translation. But the bible writers did not use classical greek....they were using Koine greek in their writings. This was not known until later centuries and that is why there are newer translations now. The KJV incorrectly uses the wrong language as the basis for its translation.

The Watchtower bible and Tract Society created the 'new world translation' bible that they have based, not on existing english translations as many do, but on the original language manuscripts. Its a wonderful translation, written in our modern everyday lanaguage so its easy to understand.

 

[Dogknox20]

The scriptures do not say that God came down to earth to live among us. They say that God was manifested in the flesh, not incarnated in the flesh. God was "with us" in spirit, but not in flesh because God cannot become flesh.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

When God sent Jesus, God was “manifested” in the flesh and Jesus dwelt among us. God did not become flesh, but rather the divine perfections of God were manifested in Jesus who came in the flesh and revealed the Word of God to humanity.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I reply....
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Manifest
Dictionary dot com
adjective
readily perceived by the eye or the understanding; evident; obvious; apparent; plain a manifest error.
Psychoanalysis. of or relating to conscious feelings, ideas, and impulses that contain repressed psychic material the manifest content of a dream as opposed to the latent content that it conceals.
verb (used with object)
to make clear or evident to the eye or the understanding; show plainly: He manifested his approval with a hearty laugh.
to prove; put beyond doubt or question:The evidence manifests the guilt of the defendant.
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John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Trailblazer the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh!

 

[Trailblazer]

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Trailblazer the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh!

The Word (God) was made flesh, because God was manifested in the flesh as Jesus, not because God became flesh. When God was manifested as Jesus, it became clear and obvious to the eye and mind that people who saw Jesus were looking at a Manifestation of God; but they were not looking at God, because no man has ever seen God (John 1:18).

manifest: clear or obvious to the eye or mind. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=manifest+means

God cannot become flesh because God is spirit.

5. God is Spirit

He Is Invisible

We can know Him apart from our physical senses

Just about everybody knows that a spirit cannot be seen. We cannot even see a human spirit. The most intimate of friends cannot see each other’s spirit and none of us can see God. Paul called Him “the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15), and “the King eternal, immortal, invisible” (1 Timothy 1:17).

John assured us that “no man has seen God at any time” (John 1:18). Mortal men have seen visible manifestations which God used to reveal Himself to them and to communicate with them, as when God the Son took human form in a Bethlehem manger. But they have never seen Him fully in His spiritual being. There is no way they could. Spirits are invisible.

Rather than spooking us out, that can be a very comforting truth. Because God is invisible, not only can we know Him, but we can know Him apart from our physical senses. We do not have to see Him or feel Him to know Him. We have spirits too, you see. God is spirit, but we have spirits housed within our physical bodies. And when our spirits are made alive toward God through the new birth, we have the capacity to commune with Him in our spirits, anytime, anywhere, and under any circumstances.

He Is Immaterial

Knowing Him delivers us from bondage to material things

The major thing we learn about God as spirit is that He is immaterial. By that we do not mean He is insignificant or unimportant, but rather, incorporeal. He does not have a body. Jesus reaffirmed that fact to His frightened disciples shortly after the resurrection. When He entered the room in His glorified body they thought they had seen a spirit. He calmed them by saying, “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39). Spirits do not have bodies.

This seems to present a problem, however, since Scripture does refer to God at times as though He has a body. For example, it mentions His hand and His ear (Isaiah 59:1), His eye (2 Chronicles 16:9), and His mouth (Matthew 4:4). Theologians call these anthropomorphisms, a word meaning “human form.” They are symbolic representations used to make God’s actions more understandable to our finite minds. But God has no material substance and He is not dependent on any material thing. He dwells in the realm of spirit.

5. God is Spirit | Bible.org

 

[Link]

The Quran says "no reward do I ask for it except the love of the kin" and said "What do I ask of a reward regarding it except who wants to take a path to their Lord?" and said "no reward do I ask for it in that the reward is only upon God (to establish)" and said "whatever reward I ask for it so then it is for yourselves".

What people accuse Prophets as their motive from perspective they are false, is power, landscaping morally, obedience, taking enlightenment from them, fame, glory, and if the person is early then also his offspring/bloodline is honored by God for reasons to limit false claimants to authority is seen as monarchy motive, but all is Quran says really would be a path to God if they were true.

Jesus was part of the Ahlulbayt of Moses and Aaron (peace be upon them all), which is one family per Quran, the family of Moses is the family of Aaron by the singular taraka... and that is also the family of David and Imran, and so as long as you held on to Jesus with your heart (loved him) along with his predecessors, recognize he has Twelve Captains with him (his predecessors including Moses) as part of his family, then no doubt he was the path to God.

Same with recognizing the Mahdi (ajf) in this age, and holding on to his Twelve Captains who are his predecessors going back to Mohammad (s) and including him as one of the Twelve Captains with him.

The gate to God is through the heart, the eyes of the heart is love, and if you love the kinsfolk chosen by God of the time, you have a fast avenue towards God and they will help you overcome your dark habits and sins.

And the current guide if he meets you can even show you miracles like that of Moses and Jesus.

This is what is meant by Jesus's words in my view. That he is the current guide but that he is to be recognized as that along with his predecessors as he is the star of the family of David, just as John the Baptist was, just as Elijah would hold the position of holy spirit when he leaves, and just as Mohammad (s) is the comforter with same position who is yet to come to this world.

 

[Link]

I reply....
.......................................................
Manifest
Dictionary dot com
adjective
readily perceived by the eye or the understanding; evident; obvious; apparent; plain a manifest error.
Psychoanalysis. of or relating to conscious feelings, ideas, and impulses that contain repressed psychic material the manifest content of a dream as opposed to the latent content that it conceals.
verb (used with object)
to make clear or evident to the eye or the understanding; show plainly: He manifested his approval with a hearty laugh.
to prove; put beyond doubt or question:The evidence manifests the guilt of the defendant.
.......................................................

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Trailblazer the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh!

I believe a better translation there then God is "the exalted ones", and it goes back to the start of the Torah which preludes to them, it's who Adam sought to have their rank, station, and everlasting authority. Jesus (a) like all Prophets (a) was chosen to the proximity he had to the exalted ones, and their love and was created upon their light. Adam (a) had their love, but was tricked to compete with them and envy them by Satan, but quickly repented through them, and they are the tree of life and tree of knowledge, twelve manner of fruits refers to the fact Mohammad (S) is the foundation with twelve branches (asbat) as his successors.

Adam (a) was created on that word of God/image of God reality to, and was God's name like Samuel (a) as well.

Mohammad (a) and his family (a) are the original exalted ones, before, rest of creation took physical form, they were lights who worshipped God for 14 000 years before he created any physical form.

 

[Link]

So a better translation is "before was the word, and the word was with the exalted ones, and the word was the exalted ones" and the exalted ones are those who Adam was told to envy and eat of them (envy the tree of life and seek to equal them in knowledge) as to become of one of them.

 

[Dogknox20]

I believe a better translation there then God is "the exalted ones", and it goes back to the start of the Torah which preludes to them, it's who Adam sought to have their rank, station, and everlasting authority. Jesus (a) like all Prophets (a) was chosen to the proximity he had to the exalted ones, and their love and was created upon their light. Adam (a) had their love, but was tricked to compete with them and envy them by Satan, but quickly repented through them, and they are the tree of life and tree of knowledge, twelve manner of fruits refers to the fact Mohammad (S) is the foundation with twelve branches (asbat) as his successors.

Adam (a) was created on that word of God/image of God reality to, and was God's name like Samuel (a) as well.

Mohammad (a) and his family (a) are the original exalted ones, before, rest of creation took physical form, they were lights who worshipped God for 14 000 years before he created any physical form.

Link I hope all is well...
I reply.... Adam did not love God!

1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Link God commanded Adam not to eat! Clearly Adam did not love God!
Only those people who love can enter heaven!
Jesus is the second Adam.. Jesus is the second PERFECT Man! Jesus does LOVE perfectly because Jesus is God! Only God is perfect only God is sinless!

1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Jesus was without sin... Sin could not hold Jesus in the grave, he rose out of the grave never ever to die again!
"The wages of Sin is death!"
All sin so we can't rise from the dead.. UNLESS..

Link unless we are immersed into the resurrected Jesus we will never live eternally!

 

[Link]

Link I hope all is well...
I reply.... Adam did not love God!

1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Link God commanded Adam not to eat! Clearly Adam did not love God!
Only those people who love can enter heaven!
Jesus is the second Adam.. Jesus is the second PERFECT Man! Jesus does LOVE perfectly because Jesus is God! Only God is perfect only God is sinless!

1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

Jesus was without sin... Sin could not hold Jesus in the grave, he rose out of the grave never ever to die again!
"The wages of Sin is death!"
All sin so we can't rise from the dead.. UNLESS..

Link unless we are immersed into the resurrected Jesus we will never live eternally!

He slipped and was tricked, he loved God but got confused due to Iblis trickery as to who was the true God, he doubted for a second and has ever regretted it. Iblis lies doesn't diminish him being chosen, since it was a slip, but he didn't continue in rebellion and God's choice of Adam was not faulty.

And if Adam believed it was the true God that commanded him not to eat, he would not disobey, but Iblis made him severely doubt the veil of which he heard the voice of God and made him doubt the authority of his veils and voices, as a result he believed in Iblis' lie that he can reach the rank of the exalted ones and believed in Iblis lies and believed he should compete with the exalted ones so to gain a "everlasting authority" and be like the "exalted ones".

He repented though and realized his evil deed after.

And those who turn to wrong religions, would be forgiven in the same way Adam was, but they just got to repent like him and not be stubborn in going astray. I swear, if humans were like Adam, and repent, and don't be stubborn when they slip, there be no need of hell nor the trial of this world.

 

[Dogknox20]

He slipped and was tricked, he loved God but got confused due to Iblis trickery as to who was the true God, he doubted for a second and has ever regretted it. Iblis lies doesn't diminish him being chosen, since it was a slip, but he didn't continue in rebellion and God's choice of Adam was not faulty.

And if Adam believed it was the true God that commanded him not to eat, he would not disobey, but Iblis made him severely doubt the veil of which he heard the voice of God and made him doubt the authority of his veils and voices, as a result he believed in Iblis' lie that he can reach the rank of the exalted ones and believed in Iblis lies and believed he should compete with the exalted ones so to gain a "everlasting authority" and be like the "exalted ones".

He repented though and realized his evil deed after.

And those who turn to wrong religions, would be forgiven in the same way Adam was, but they just got to repent like him and not be stubborn in going astray. I swear, if humans were like Adam, and repent, and don't be stubborn when they slip, there be no need of hell nor the trial of this world.

Link what you say is all very nice but.....
But all I see is your own ideas and wishes! You have NO scriptures fact is all you got is your own opinion which means very little!

Scripture... Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Scriptures tell you.. "Word for word" Adam did not love God!

 

[Link]

Link what you say is all very nice but.....
But all I see is your own ideas and wishes! You have NO scriptures fact is all you got is your own opinion which means very little!

Scripture... Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden;
1 John 5:3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Scriptures tell you.. "Word for word" Adam did not love God!

He kept his commandments, but slipped once.

 

[Dogknox20]

He kept his commandments, but slipped once.

Hello Link... I hope all is well...
Again your comment is just your opinion!
.
I reply... Adam was created perfect; he was created sinless! Adam was in heaven where PERFECTION is. Adam was removed because of his sin, he was not perfect anymore because of his free choice to sin; he did not have love!
Link Yes God is spirit but God is also LOVE!

Romans 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1 John 4:8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Love created the earth.... Only those with love will enter heaven.. Adam was removed because he did not love God; he did not love Eve!
Link Jesus is love incarnate... Jesus gave himself for us in perfect love so we could live eternally with him in heaven!

1 John 4:9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

 

[Link]

The proof for me is that the way Seth is introduced and all holy images of God and names of God in the Torah, is they all holy and God only wants us to follow and obey holy kings who are his names and images and instances of the holy spirit. You can disagree, but I believe you conjecture about Adam with no proof while I have proof he is chosen both by the context of the Torah as well as the words of Prophets recorded by Jews about Adam and his holy position. Neither support this concept that he hated God.

 

[Muffled]

Unconstitutional? What is unconstitutional about it?

It does not contain this: Mat.24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[Muffled]

I agree there is One Creator God. The Jews referred to Him as Yahweh, the Christians Heavenly Father and Muslims Allah.

I agree Jesus was His Spokesperson but also Moses and Muhammad. I believe we need to recognise all the Messengers of God, not just Jesus. So the Messengers of Christ, particularly Muhammad, the Bab and Bahá’u’lláh the Baha’is recognise but the Christians generally do not.

Some denominations of Christianity are closer to the truth than others.

Messengers are OK but with Jesus you get the word straight from the mouth of God. That should take precedence over any other message.

The B men have not presented any validity to being messengers from God. They could claim to be messengers about God but sometimes the message is false.

 

[Muffled]

I see no point in covering the same ground over and over again. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe.
I wish you my best.

I believe the prodigal son came to a realization so I pray you will also.

 

[Dogknox20]

The proof for me is that the way Seth is introduced and all holy images of God and names of God in the Torah, is they all holy and God only wants us to follow and obey holy kings who are his names and images and instances of the holy spirit. You can disagree, but I believe you conjecture about Adam with no proof while I have proof he is chosen both by the context of the Torah as well as the words of Prophets recorded by Jews about Adam and his holy position. Neither support this concept that he hated God.

.
I did not say; Adam hated God.... I said: Adam made his choice... Adam' choice was sin! Adam freely sinned.. No one made Adam sin!
God is LOVE... God loves all men, God is perfect he can only love! Adam did not love God we know this beyond all doubt... Scriptures tell us "Keeping God' commands is loving God"!

Jesus loves us so much he gave himself in death on the cross so we would not have to die! Jesus went to the cross freely out of perfect love for us!
Link What we have to do is unite ourselves with the LIVING forever body of Jesus! NO ONE...

Link no one can die twice! You can't even kill a stinking, mangey, no good for nothing dog two times, you can only kill it one time! Jesus died never ever to die again! Jesus will live forever and so will we IF.... we are ADDED to his living body!

 

[Dawnofhope]

Messengers are OK but with Jesus you get the word straight from the mouth of God. That should take precedence over any other message.

The B men have not presented any validity to being messengers from God. They could claim to be messengers about God but sometimes the message is false.

With Jesus we have a record of what He did and said that was written at least 30 years after His crucifixion by anonymous authors who most likely were not eye witnesses to the events they recorded.

The Quran was written and compiled during Muhammad’s lifetime.

With Bahá’u’lláh we have writings in His own hand or from His secretary.

So the Words attributed to Jesus are the least reliable in regards in transmission when compared to Muhammad or Bahá’u’lláh.

The content of what is recorded through the Gospel accounts, the Quran and the Baha’i writings is readily accessible to anyone who wishes to investigate the veracity of their respective claims.

 

[Trailblazer]

It does not contain this: Mat.24:30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Why do you believe that is about Jesus? I do not believe that it is about Jesus, I believe it is about Baha'u'llah.
Jesus said we would see the Son om man. Jesus did not say we would see Him.

Why didn’t Jesus say He was going to return to earth if He had been planning to return to earth? If Jesus was planning to return to earth why did Jesus say I have finished my work, the world will see me no more, and I am no more in the world?

In some instances Jesus was referring to himself as the Son of Man and we know that because of the context of those verses where the title is connected with the earthly life of Jesus we know about from cross verification (reading other verses). For example, we know from other verses that Jesus did the following when he came to earth:

But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins - he said to the paralytic (Mark 2:10).

So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28).

And Jesus said to him, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head (Matthew 8:20)

For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost (Luke 19:10).

And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again (Mark 8:31).

It is not a reasonable conclusion to assume that Jesus was referring to Himself as the Son of Man who would come in the clouds with great power and glory because:

(a) Great power and glory is not consistent with the personality of Jesus. Jesus was meek and lowly.

(b) Son of man is not a title that belongs exclusively to Jesus, so there is no reason to believe that Jesus was the only Son of Man: 37 Bible verses about Son Of Man

"Son of man", "son of Adam", or "like a man", are phrases used in the Hebrew Bible, various apocalyptic works of the intertestamental period, and in the Greek New Testament. In the indefinite form ("son of Adam", "son of man", "like a man") used in the Hebrew Bible it is a form of address, or it contrasts human beings against God and the angels, or contrasts foreign nations (like Persia and Babylon), which are often represented as animals in apocalyptic writings (bear, goat, or ram), with Israel which is represented as human (a "son of man"), or it signifies an eschatological human figure.

In its indefinite form it is used in the Greek Old Testament, Biblical apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha. The Greek New Testament uses the earlier indefinite form while introducing a novel definite form, "the son of man."

Son of man - Wikipedia

(c) Jesus could not come back to earth in the same body because His body died on the cross. Jesus did not come back to life walk around and then ascend into the clouds to heaven and live there for 2000 years planning to return at some future date. This is all a belief that came into being from a misinterpretation and thus a misunderstanding of Bible verses, a grave misunderstanding.

(d) There are no verses wherein Jesus says He is coming back to earth and many verses where Jesus says He is not coming back to earth because His work is finished here: (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

The logical conclusion we can draw is that the second coming was slated to be another man. Since truth from God is revealed progressively, Jesus promised to send the Comforter and the Spirit of truth to reveal more truth in the future, but Christians did not understand what Jesus was referring to and believed that was a reference to the Holy Spirit that was sent to the disciples at Pentecost when on fact those were titles for the man who would be the second coming of Christ who was the return of the Spirit of Christ.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?