John Oliver Rakes Televangelists over the Coals

[Bunyip]

Better to ask for a study. Far too many people just link whatever random website fits their confirmation bias. Studies provide facts, methodology and proper correlation.

Yeah, I get that.
As far as I am aware there are no formal studies that support such faith healing. But yes, just one example of one that did would sure help.

 

[Thana]

Hang on! You just said that there were plenty of these healings - now you say you don't believe they can heal people? Then how is it insulting to challenge the TV evangelists claims?

We were talking about faith healings.

Another one of my points, Not being able to seperate religious beliefs from televangelism.

 

[Bunyip]

We were talking about faith healings.

Another one of my points, Not being able to seperate religious beliefs from televangelism.

No, we were talking about TV evangelists, please re-read the OP. This is about the TV evangelists - you said there were plenty of healings - but were not referring to TV evangelists is that correct?

 

[Thana]

No, we were talking about TV evangelists, please re-read the OP. This is about the TV evangelists - you said there were plenty of healings - but were not referring to TV evangelists is that correct?

No, I said that to the other guy but you hijacked the debate obviously not reading the conversation we were having and once again jumping the gun.

 

[Shad]

To be fair televangelists have done the same routine with faith healing and were busted for it. It is relevant since in both cases they are taking advantage of a belief and gullibility for their profit.

 

[Shad]

Yeah, I get that.
As far as I am aware there are no formal studies that support such faith healing. But yes, just one example of one that did would sure help.

There is one I know of but it has been refuted by Duke Uni. MANTRA 1 and 2 studies. The only support any sort of healing is via prayers having a physiological effect on the people receiving it. However they must know of it thus is a placebo effect. When they do not there is no difference. The placebo effect in a number of tests unrelated to religion show that it does have an effect. It can be useful in case in which medicine is not required as symptoms are of a mental rather than physical nature.

 

[LuisDantas]

Comparisons of what?

Militant and Atheism?

Militant Atheism and Militant Theism.

 

[Thana]

Militant Atheism and Militant Theism.

Are you trying to say that one is worse than the other?

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you trying to say that one is worse than the other?

Not "trying". Saying so, out loud.

It should not be necessary, but if it is, I will be glad to.

 

[Thana]

Not "trying". Saying so, out loud.

It should not be necessary, but if it is, I will be glad to.

Then please elaborate, Why do you think Militant Atheism is worse than Militant Theism? They both seem to have the same results and ideals, Which is generally some form of oppression.

 

[LuisDantas]

Then please elaborate, Why do you think Militant Atheism is worse than Militant Theism? They both seem to have the same results and ideals, Which is generally some form of oppression.

I can only assume you have not paid the matter a lot of attention.

Atheism has no political value. While you and others keep bringing up various Communist regimes as an attempt of evidencing that militant atheism may be oppressive, that is a serious mistake, if not an altogether dishonest one.

By constrast, militant theism makes demands as a matter of course, disregarding people's intellectual and moral freedom even at their basic stages of action. Far too often it ends up literally bullying people into giving away their possessions to the benefit of so-called priests, and occasionally it leads to deluded killers and to situations such as Jonestown, the Waco Siege in California, and the fraudulent takeover of Antelope, Oregon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones#Deaths_in_Jonestown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneeshpuram

http://www.religioustolerance.org/intol_news.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm

 

[Thana]

I can only assume you have not paid the matter a lot of attention.

Atheism has no political value. While you and others keep bringing up various Communist regimes as an attempt of evidencing that militant atheism may be oppressive, that is a serious mistake, if not an altogether dishonest one.

By constrast, militant theism makes demands as a matter of course, disregarding people's intellectual and moral freedom even at their basic stages of action. Far too often it ends up literally bullying people into giving away their possessions to the benefit of so-called priests, and occasionally it leads to deluded killers and to situations such as Jonestown, the Waco Siege in California, and the fraudulent takeover of Antelope, Oregon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jones#Deaths_in_Jonestown

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajneeshpuram

http://www.religioustolerance.org/intol_news.htm

http://www.religioustolerance.org/curr_war.htm

You're right, I haven't paid it much attention, not really. It felt to me common sense that not only can one not truly measure 'who is worse' but that its an exercise in bias and futility.

Atheism has never really had the platform that Theism has had nor the numbers, and in the circumstances that it has they then use the excuse that "Atheism has no set doctrine" which is apparently a magical phrase that makes all the bad things disappear.

 

[LuisDantas]

You're right, I haven't paid it much attention, not really. It felt to me common sense that not only can one not truly measure 'who is worse' but that its an exercise in bias and futility.

Then it strikes me as odd that you make casual assumptions that there is an equivalence, despite a complete lack of supporting evidence.

Atheism has never really had the platform that Theism has had nor the numbers, and in the circumstances that it has they then use the excuse that "Atheism has no set doctrine" which is apparently a magical phrase that makes all the bad things disappear.

Still not paying a lot of attention to what you say, are you?

 

[Shad]

You're right, I haven't paid it much attention, not really. It felt to me common sense that not only can one not truly measure 'who is worse' but that its an exercise in bias and futility.

Atheism has never really had the platform that Theism has had nor the numbers, and in the circumstances that it has they then use the excuse that "Atheism has no set doctrine" which is apparently a magical phrase that makes all the bad things disappear.

It has no set doctrine since it is a single position to one question. It would be like saying I believe in dogs has a set doctrine. It is nonsensical dogma spouted by Christian anti-communist.

 

[leibowde84]

Dear Americans: Grow up.


Otherwise nice video.

Why the insult toward Americans in general? There seems to be value in ridiculing people like this. Our nation is finally getting fed up with the notion that religious beliefs must be respected no matter what. That is a great thing!

 

[leibowde84]

Nah most of my entertainment comes from Japan.
I am quite sure that I would survive a world without Americans who are so prude.

"Prude"? Why?

 

[Bunyip]

There is one I know of but it has been refuted by Duke Uni. MANTRA 1 and 2 studies. The only support any sort of healing is via prayers having a physiological effect on the people receiving it. However they must know of it thus is a placebo effect. When they do not there is no difference. The placebo effect in a number of tests unrelated to religion show that it does have an effect. It can be useful in case in which medicine is not required as symptoms are of a mental rather than physical nature.

Cheers.
And yes, there needs to be something better than the placebo effect. This sort of TV faith healing that evangelists do is as dangerous as it is dishonest.

 

[Nakosis]

Militant Atheists...

 

[Nakosis]

http://www.patriotnetdaily.com/mili...her-to-take-down-cross-honoring-her-dead-son/

 

[Shad]

The cross was on public land thus illegal. The mother's grief does not grant her a right to break the law. Appeals to emotions, nothing more. So she was in the wrong in the first place.

http://www.lake-elsinore.org/index.aspx?page=122