Jordan Peterson on Sex

[Firenze]

You're the one who introduced anecdotes into the conversation, so you tell me.

I introduced the hard evidence of Trump and Clinton demographics on a national level, which proved my claims and which you have so far avoided facing. Why is that?

 

[anna.]

Because we need major change in this dying country and he's the only one proposing anything different who has a chance of winning. I don't vote for establishment politicians if I can help it. I'm one of those populist antiwar ex-Democrats who hated Bush and the neocons in the 2000s and voted for Obama, believing his lies. I voted for Hillary in 2016 (because I was scared into it and should've known better) and Bernie in both primaries. I wanted Tusli Gabbard much more in 2020, but I voted for Trump because he had a chance of winning and I realized we weren't doing that badly under his administration (well, until the lockdowns wrecked everything).

I'm not beholden to either parties and see that they're both ruining this country, but I support populist uprisings in both in hopes that they can transform those parties into something that represents actual Americans and not just corporations and ultrarich donors.

First, the country isn’t dying. Second, do you even care he tried to effect a coup? That should be unforgivable. Why isn’t it for you?

 

[Sargonski]

No, the DSM provides a set of guidelines for diagnosing mental disorder.

And no, it's not based on the Freudian school of thought. And it has changed drastically since first created.

Yes .. as stated the DSM provides a set of guidelines for diagnosing mental disorder ... and from there often comes the drug recommendation for the diagnosed disorder. and Yes .. it is based on the Freudian methodology as described to you .. something you have failed to address ... preferring to cry "No no no" as if repeating a naked claim over and over constitutes an argument for something.

We have discovered that your Psyc education did not include the ability to distinguish between Rogerian and Freudian perspective .. I am guessing logical fallacy was not covered either ... critical thinking .. what constitutes a valid argument .. logic .. that kind of thing .. Sometimes arts Students can take Logic 100 as the Math requirement .. and so many would get this training ... I say the class should be required for a degree. ... but who cares what I think .. aye mate

Last time you were going to tell me about this "Specifically Locatable Phenominon" type of medical disorder .. vs the other kind .. and how this relates to our discussing of Therapy and if not Freud or Rogers .. what is the current methodology for diagnosis .. Do we no longer ask questions to and of the Patient .. in order to diagnose.. or do we just hook them up to a machine which tells us immediately what is wrong inside their head ?

Or did you think changing Obsessive Compulsive to something a little more politically correct means the Freud Method is no longer in use ?

How has it changed friend .. need to put some clothes on naked claims of yours..

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I introduced the hard evidence of Trump and Clinton demographics on a national level, which proved my claims and which you have so far avoided facing. Why is that?

If you would read my posts for once instead of blindly bloaviating, you would see that I asked where it shows that the Trump supporters are racist. I didn't dispute that most Trump supporters are white and non-college graduates. (Although Trump does have somewhat more black, Latino, Asian abd LGBT supporters than any other Republican candidate probably ever had/has; probably because he didn't base his initial presidential term around culture wars and focused more on the economy, immigration and foreign policy).

 

[Firenze]

Because we need major change in this dying country and he's the only one proposing anything different who has a chance of winning. I don't vote for establishment politicians if I can help it. I'm one of those populist antiwar ex-Democrats who hated Bush and the neocons in the 2000s and voted for Obama, believing his lies. I voted for Hillary in 2016 (because I was scared into it and should've known better) and Bernie in both primaries. I wanted Tusli Gabbard much more in 2020, but I voted for Trump because he had a chance of winning and I realized we weren't doing that badly under his administration (well, until the lockdowns wrecked everything).

I'm not beholden to either parties and see that they're both ruining this country, but I support populist uprisings in both in hopes that they can transform those parties into something that represents actual Americans and not just corporations and ultrarich donors.

Yes, it was those irresponsible lockdowns that hurt us, not the hundreds of thousands killed under Trumps criminal and failed ‘just drink bleach’ policies.

And who did he kill more of? You’re beloved uneducated republicans! Still today - counties that voted Trump suffer 3 TIMES the death rate from Covid.

I agree the nation I served is dying. It’s dying from willful ignorance. It’s dying from the destructive actions of erstwhile Christians who spit on the teachings of Jesus and revel in their ‘otherness’ from their fellow man instead of embracing their sameness. Shame on you.

 

[Firenze]

If you would read my posts for once instead of blindly bloaviating, you would see that I asked where it shows that the Trump supporters are racist. I didn't dispute that most Trump supporters are white and non-college graduates. (Although Trump does have somewhat more black, Latino, Asian abd LGBT supporters than any other Republican candidate probably ever had/has; probably because he didn't base his initial presidential term around culture wars and focused more on the economy, immigration and foreign policy).

You’ll have to show me the claim that Trump supporters are racist.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

First, the country isn’t dying. Second, do you even care he tried to effect a coup? That should be unforgivable. Why isn’t it for you?

It's dying from what I can see and what the data says. The American life expectancy has been officially lowered, record numbers of Americans are committing suicide each year (the number has been climbing each year for about 20 years), there's a mass epidemic of mental illness and addiction on a level never seen before and we see the spillover of this with this vast homelessness problem playing out in all the major cities, a huge chunk of the population is drugged up on mind altering pharmaceuticals, we're poisoned by our food and water supply, the cost of living is skyrocketing (I work full time and even with overtime, I am in poverty and rely on welfare just to survive), civilization has died - random acts of violence between strangers in the cities and people snapping and slaughtering people is a normal thing now along with a general mood of anger (I work in retail, I see it all the time), the wealth gap is turning into a canyon, our media and pop culture is becoming increasingly dumb, vulgar, narcissistic and zombifying, etc.

I could go on and on.

"January 6th" is a psyop, to put it more or less bluntly. There were federal agents escalating things in the crowd, and this is pretty obvious and kinda sorta been admitted to by the FBI during Congressional questioning. I know of such tactics - agents provocateurs. I've seen this myself when I was at one of the 2020 George Floyd protests here that turned into a running street battle with the cops. There's too many inconsistencies. The Biden administration is persecuting its political adversies. It's not the first time the DoJ and especially the FBI has been weaponized. It's been used throughout its history to silence opposition, such as the Civil Rights movement (the FBI tried to ruin MLK). The federal government is not the friend of the American people. They betrayed us a long time ago. They serve other interests.

 

[Firenze]

It's making my point. They quit Christianity, and given your posts I assume you are aware it doesn't accurately recount history. Americans are largeyly quitting that. But the direction they are going, it includes books by a particular publisher (Llewellyn) that it's publishes books that are swamped with historical inaccuracies. I've not seen a single one to accurately cover the subject of witch hunts amd how the Church has handled the subject, including how many, many Christians did not believe in witchcraft and even rejected the Malleus Maleficarum until a later date when the Church dod start to believe in witchcraft (which tended to be more after the so-called Dark Ages).

Without numbers this claim is meaningless. Trends can mean 10 million people a year are embracing the occult, or 10,000. One is clearly significant while the other is not. Further, as stated earlier, I welcome a trend away from a religion that seeks to impose it’s perverse ‘morality’ and contempt for both science and history towards a benign group that read tarot cards that have no adverse effect on you, me, or my grandkids. If ignorance is the only Choice, I choose the one that doesn’t demonize children that are gay or trans.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you recognize your post is anecdotal, and has nothing to do with the fact that Trump was favored by the less educated.

I'm saying now you're showing a prejudice against thise who don't have a higher education. Guess what? Lots of high school drop outs and those without college didn't vote for Trump either. I wouldn't myself if I wasn't disabled.

 

[Firenze]

I'm saying now you're showing a prejudice against thise who don't have a higher education. Guess what? Lots of high school drop outs and those without college didn't vote for Trump either. I wouldn't myself if I wasn't disabled.

No, I’m expressing a profound sadness and frustration that the lack of education is inextricably linked to demonizing sexuality thereby putting gay and trans kids at risk of ostracism, injury, and death - especially when the solution is so simple. Education needs to be revered as the Silver Bullet. Instead, it’s now increasingly criticized as something for those silly ‘woke’ people who dare to champion racial and gender equality. Science books replace by ID nonsense. And the abject ignorance regarding sexuality as stated puts lives in danger. I don’t know what bona fides anyone here has, but I worked in human sexuality for years, educating young people on STD prevention and avoiding unwanted pregnancy. I lectured at universities on a variety of subjects. I have cradled gay and trans teenagers as they sobbed uncontrollably after being shunned and disowned by their loving Christian families. So yeah, I have a number of axes to grind. Studying witchcraft may not be our most noble pursuit, but I find it vastly superior to all of the abrahamic religions.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, I’m expressing a profound sadness and frustration that the lack of education is inextricably linked to demonizing sexuality thereby putting gay and trans kids at risk of ostracism, injury, and death - especially when the solution is so simple. Education needs to be revered as the Silver Bullet. Instead, it’s now increasingly criticized as something for those silly ‘woke’ people who dare to champion racial and gender equality. Science books replace by ID nonsense. And the abject ignorance regarding sexuality as stated puts lives in danger. I don’t know what bona fides anyone here has, but I worked in human sexuality for years, educating young people on STD prevention and avoiding unwanted pregnancy. I lectured at universities on a variety of subjects. I have cradled gay and trans teenagers as they sobbed uncontrollably after being shunned and disowned by their loving Christian families. So yeah, I have a number of axes to grind. Studying witchcraft may not be our most noble pursuit, but I find it vastly superior to all of the abrahamic religions.

Is it education or culture? When I was growing up, education didn't matter, American or Ruskie, Captilist or Communist, West ir East, being gay was considered wrong. Even in France, Michel Foucault quit the French Communist party and had some difficulties because he was gay.

 

[Firenze]

Is it education or culture? When I was growing up, education didn't matter, American or Ruskie, Captilist or Communist, West ir East, being gay was considered wrong. Even in France, Michel Foucault quit the French Communist party and had some difficulties because he was gay.

Culture determines what that group values, and what kind of education is valued. Someone hear basically called for ignoring sex education and sticking to just readin’ and writin’. I find that a low bar indeed.

And sure, there is a universal ‘ick’ factor attached to gay and trans people - all fueled by the bigotry of religion. There seems a clear correlation between higher education and empathy, and therefore acceptance. I vote for higher education.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There seems a clear correlation between higher education and empathy, and therefore acceptance. I vote for higher education.

Ridiculous garbage.

 

[Sargonski]

Culture determines what that group values, and what kind of education is valued. Someone hear basically called for ignoring sex education and sticking to just readin’ and writin’. I find that a low bar indeed.

And sure, there is a universal ‘ick’ factor attached to gay and trans people - all fueled by the bigotry of religion. There seems a clear correlation between higher education and empathy, and therefore acceptance. I vote for higher education.

How does one vote for "Higher Education" ? and if on the basis of some statistical trait -- what a horrible justification for a vote .. a vote based on false logic .. even if the sole basis for making decision was the gay/trans issue .

Just because the average Republican happens to be more educated than the Average Dem doesn't mean the Red Candidate is "More educated" .. or smarter .. what ever "Smarter" Means .. as begs the question .. smart at what ? ... there are many different kinds of intelligence .. and ability to do complex math is not going to make one a good leader .. or smart at anything else. ..nor moral , honorable , nor Patriotic.

 

[anna.]

It's dying from what I can see and what the data says.

From what you can see isn't enough.

Data is a good place to start, but you have to put that data into context.

The American life expectancy has been officially lowered, record numbers of Americans are committing suicide each year (the number has been climbing each year for about 20 years), there's a mass epidemic of mental illness and addiction on a level never seen before and we see the spillover of this with this vast homelessness problem playing out in all the major cities, a huge chunk of the population is drugged up on mind altering pharmaceuticals, we're poisoned by our food and water supply, the cost of living is skyrocketing (I work full time and even with overtime, I am in poverty and rely on welfare just to survive), civilization has died - random acts of violence between strangers in the cities and people snapping and slaughtering people is a normal thing now along with a general mood of anger (I work in retail, I see it all the time), the wealth gap is turning into a canyon, our media and pop culture is becoming increasingly dumb, vulgar, narcissistic and zombifying, etc.

Our life expectancy is still greater than it was, in fact it's ten years longer than it was the year I was born.

The number of suicides, tragic as it is, doesn't mean our country is dying. Mental illness is more readily admitted to and more diagnosed than it was in the past.

I could go on too. You're right about the amount of chemicals, the environment, homelessness, etc. But did you know that an estimated half a million people were left homeless by the Dustbowl? That unemployment after the Stockmarket crash of 1929 closed 5,000 banks and shot unemployment to 25%? I'm sure you realize that random acts of violence are a part of human existence. Even if pop culture is dumb and vulgar, it doesn't mean our country is dying.

"January 6th" is a psyop, to put it more or less bluntly. There were federal agents escalating things in the crowd, and this is pretty obvious and kinda sorta been admitted to by the FBI during Congressional questioning. I know of such tactics - agents provocateurs. I've seen this myself when I was at one of the 2020 George Floyd protests here that turned into a running street battle with the cops. There's too many inconsistencies. The Biden administration is persecuting its political adversies. It's not the first time the DoJ and especially the FBI has been weaponized. It's been used throughout its history to silence opposition, such as the Civil Rights movement (the FBI tried to ruin MLK). The federal government is not the friend of the American people. They betrayed us a long time ago. They serve other interests.

It was NOT a psyop, to put it quite bluntly. There is no proof, and I'd love to see a transcript of that FBI testimony.

There IS proof of Trump trying to overturn the election, and again - does that not disqualify him in your eyes on that alone? If not, why not?

It's okay to have a healthy skepticism of the federal government. This has always been true. It's not new concept, as anyone who knows, for example, the history of how we got into the Viet Nam War.

That still doesn't mean our country is dying, it doesn't mean Trump can "save us," and doesn't explain why you'd support such a corrupt individual.

 

[anna.]

There IS proof of Trump trying to overturn the election, and again - does that not disqualify him in your eyes on that alone? If not, why not?

Just saw this:

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger testified Monday about the infamous phone call from then-President Donald Trump seeking election officials to "find" the nearly 12,000 votes needed to overturn Joe Biden's win in the Peach State.

Raffensperger, a Republican, testified there was no federal role in the certification of Georgia’s elections, which he oversees as the state’s top election official. Fulton County prosecutors asked if there was any role for the US president in certifying Georgia’s elections. Raffensperger replied there was none.​

​

“It was a campaign call,” Raffensperger said.​

​

Prosecutors are trying to rebut Meadows’ argument that he got involved in Georgia’s 2020 election as part of his federal duties as chief of staff and not on behalf of the Trump campaign, and Raffensperger's testimony could hurt that argument.​

​

Raffensperger testified that only two dead people voted in Georgia in 2020 – not the 5,000 that Trump falsely claimed on the January 2021 call with Raffensperger.​

​

Raffensperger also testified that he first tried to resist the call with Trump. “I told my deputy I don’t think this is in our best interest,” he said.​

​

“Outreach to this extent was extraordinary,” Raffensperger added.​

 

[Firenze]

It's dying from what I can see and what the data says. The American life expectancy has been officially lowered, record numbers of Americans are committing suicide each year (the number has been climbing each year for about 20 years), there's a mass epidemic of mental illness and addiction on a level never seen before and we see the spillover of this with this vast homelessness problem playing out in all the major cities, a huge chunk of the population is drugged up on mind altering pharmaceuticals, we're poisoned by our food and water supply, the cost of living is skyrocketing (I work full time and even with overtime, I am in poverty and rely on welfare just to survive), civilization has died - random acts of violence between strangers in the cities and people snapping and slaughtering people is a normal thing now along with a general mood of anger (I work in retail, I see it all the time), the wealth gap is turning into a canyon, our media and pop culture is becoming increasingly dumb, vulgar, narcissistic and zombifying, etc.

I could go on and on.

"January 6th" is a psyop, to put it more or less bluntly. There were federal agents escalating things in the crowd, and this is pretty obvious and kinda sorta been admitted to by the FBI during Congressional questioning. I know of such tactics - agents provocateurs. I've seen this myself when I was at one of the 2020 George Floyd protests here that turned into a running street battle with the cops. There's too many inconsistencies. The Biden administration is persecuting its political adversies. It's not the first time the DoJ and especially the FBI has been weaponized. It's been used throughout its history to silence opposition, such as the Civil Rights movement (the FBI tried to ruin MLK). The federal government is not the friend of the American people. They betrayed us a long time ago. They serve other interests.

For the record, this 'psyop' nonsense is where you lost all credibility. Sad.

 

[Firenze]

How does one vote for "Higher Education" ? and if on the basis of some statistical trait -- what a horrible justification for a vote .. a vote based on false logic .. even if the sole basis for making decision was the gay/trans issue .

Just because the average Republican happens to be more educated than the Average Dem doesn't mean the Red Candidate is "More educated" .. or smarter .. what ever "Smarter" Means .. as begs the question .. smart at what ? ... there are many different kinds of intelligence .. and ability to do complex math is not going to make one a good leader .. or smart at anything else. ..nor moral , honorable , nor Patriotic.

This isn't very hard. It means that I vote for candidates that understand the importance of reaching for a better educational system - one that teaches critical thinking for starters, sex education, and actual science and history, regardless of how ashamed some people are to be confronted with our 400 year legacy of institutionalized racism.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Culture determines what that group values, and what kind of education is valued. Someone hear basically called for ignoring sex education and sticking to just readin’ and writin’. I find that a low bar indeed.

When America did better on TIMS scores it was more homophibic. Even just 30 and 40 years ago being gay was a serious accusation.
And like it or not, it takes Christians to sway the discourse and direction of Christianity. Yes, they fought to preserve slavery, but due to the highly contradicting nature of the Bible they are also credited with fighting to end it.

And sure, there is a universal ‘ick’ factor attached to gay and trans people -

Universal? That claim is wrong. Laughably so.

all fueled by the bigotry of religion.

A few religions, particularly Abrahamic religions. But lots of religions have had figures that we would today describe as LGB or T. The T have even been spiritual leaders in some cultures.

There seems a clear correlation between higher education and empathy, and therefore acceptance. I vote for higher education.

I very much doubt thatand I have co.e across nothing in my education or professional background to suggest there is a correlation between education amd empathy. Other animals display it so the claim seems dubious at best.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

For the record, this 'psyop' nonsense is where you lost all credibility. Sad.

Nah, it just means you don't understand it, like any other subject you've tried to comment on.

Psychological operations (United States) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

At least @anna. tried to refute it, despite not commenting on most of the things I bought up (that's not a knock at her, by the way; she asked a few questions and I answered honestly), but you have nothing to say. I don't really care about the peanut gallery anymore.