Jordanian court has begun blasphemy proceedings against Danish artist Kurt Westergaard

[waitasec]

Question:

Isn't there a difference between the word "dead" and the word "punished?" Or does the difference only exist in Western society?

yup, i guess so...
we came to this understanding with progressive thinking and we're still waiting for some to catch up...

 

[tumbleweed41]

thats what you were reffering to, well just incase you haven't heard about the drawings, they depict our prophet as being a terrorist. so does that hold any ground?

In some peoples eyes, yes.

But the comparison to being accused of murder still fails.

 

[Gharib]

In some peoples eyes, yes.

But the comparison to being accused of murder still fails.

i just gave an example of how people react to false accusations i didn't make a comparison.

 

[waitasec]

so if i say that danish people are terrorist and what not and then i find a way to offend the whole country and then when they react that means i was right about what i said regarding the Danish??? :sarcastic

if danes were known to be...it wouldn't be so hard to prove it now, would it?
why not concentrate on the things that really matter in islamic countries...like education and helping the needy, is this depiction of mohammed that important that you would rather attend to this farce then to attend to those who are in need of help?
i mean what seems to be more important is the way islam is to be understood, how it looks to the world while ignoring the real problems islamic nations are facing.

Muslim societies are far worse than the rest of the world in the matter of addressing the problem of poverty. The Islamic world is enormous with over 1.2 billion people, stretching from Senegal to the Philippines – comprising six regions: North Africa, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, Central Asia, South Asia, and Southeast Asia. Except for a handful of countries in Southeast Asia and the Middle East, there are high and rising poverty levels in both urban and rural parts of most Muslim countries. Poverty levels have also been associated with high inequality alongside low productivity. In Indonesia alone with world’s largest Muslim population, over half of the national populations - about 129 million people are poor or vulnerable to poverty with incomes less than merely US$2 a day.

Poverty In Islam

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I am posting the link to the whole debate which took place before and after the 2005 drawing of the cartoons. It explains the reasons why the newspaper published the drawings as well as the reactions of various people involved. Don't worry, you can't see any of the cartoons unless you scroll up. Please read it with an open mind. We all seem to be talking without knowing the full context of the incident.
Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tumbleweed41]

please show me where i have said that he should be punished simply because he drew a cartoon or simply because i feel offended if you are truthful.

The following illustrates the barbaric practices that harm the image of Islam and makes westerners doubt it's message of peace.

the point of this trial is to prevent low life scum bags from insulting and provoking other people with something they think they have a right to do and should not get punished.

if you call someone something that he hates or do something that he hates and you are doing it for that purpose only (ie for him to react) then that is a provocation.

and the verse says:

Provocation is worse than killing.

he made a provocation, killing him over that is justice.

Provocation is worse than murder (2:191)

 

[tumbleweed41]

i just gave an example of how people react to false accusations i didn't make a comparison.

 

[Gharib]

The following illustrates the barbaric practices that harm the image of Islam and makes westerners doubt it's message of peace.

thanks for not answering my question.

 

[McBell]

thanks for not answering my question.

Your hypocrisy is almost as disgusting as your dishonesty.

 

[waitasec]

I am posting the link to the whole debate which took place before and after the 2005 drawing of the cartoons. It explains the reasons why the newspaper published the drawings as well as the reactions of various people involved. Don't worry, you can't see any of the cartoons unless you scroll up. Please read it with an open mind. We all seem to be talking without knowing the full context of the incident.
Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thanks...
i would like to focus on this from your link...


The modern, secular society is rejected by some Muslims. They demand a special position, insisting on special consideration of their own religious feelings. It is incompatible with contemporary democracy and freedom of speech, where one must be ready to put up with insults, mockery and ridicule. It is certainly not always attractive and nice to look at, and it does not mean that religious feelings should be made fun of at any price, but that is of minor importance in the present context.[...] we are on our way to a slippery slope where no-one can tell how the self-censorship will end. That is why Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten has invited members of the Danish editorial cartoonists union to draw Muhammad as they see him. [...]


After the invitation from Jyllands-Posten to about forty different artists to give their interpretation of Muhammad, 12 caricaturists chose to respond with a drawing each. Many also commented on the surrounding self-censorship debate. Three of these 12 cartoons were illustrated by Jyllands-Posten's own staff, including the "bomb in turban" and "niqābs" cartoons.
On 19 February, Rose explained his intent further In the Washington Post:

The cartoonists treated Islam the same way they treat Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and other religions. And by treating Muslims in Denmark as equals they made a point: We are integrating you into the Danish tradition of satire because you are part of our society, not strangers. The cartoons are including, rather than excluding, Muslims.

 

[beenie]

what punishment do you think he deserves?
what will this punishment accomplish?
will Denmark be able to then reciprocate and punish the Jordanian courts because THEY'RE offended?

where does this stop? why can't it stop at a strong written statement condemning the intent of his cartoon? why can't we, as Muslims, take a stand without punishment? what happened to peaceful resistance?

in other words, why can't we prove him wrong?

that depends if he is found guilty and death might not be the fitting punishment even if he is found guilty, there are crimes that desserve death and crimes that don't.

my question was, what do YOU think the punishment should be? I personally think the death penalty shouldn't even be an option for a dumb cartoon...yes, I think it's a dumb cartoon.

it will prevent low lives from spewing what they do which is not right and not based on proof. what right does he have to call our prophet a terrorist without facts?

Really? By punishing him with the possibility of death over a drawing...we won't be proving him right?

so like i said before, his provocation might lead to war, so who should be punished?

war? over a cartoon? it's offensive, yes. but war?

all this 'nonsense' would have ended way earlier if an apology was made to muslims and the images removed.

if they apologize, will Jordan drop the charges? will Westergaard be able to live without 24 hour protection?

the court is working on that, thats the reason behind the trial, he can't be punished simply because we found his actions offencive.

you misunderstood my question. I asked, "why can't we prove him wrong?" Let me clarify: why can't we prove him wrong about us Muslims being terrorists by taking the high road instead of threatening him with death and putting him on trial?

 

[Flankerl]

Sad that you wont answer me eselam. :/



Tevye: As Abraham said, "I am a stranger in a strange land... "
Mendel: Moses said that.
Tevye: Ah. Well, as King David said, "I am slow of speech, and slow of tongue."
Mendel: That was also Moses.
Tevye: For a man who was slow of tongue, he talked a lot.


OH NO A JOKE ABOUT MOSES!

 

[Gharib]

what post have i not answered flankerl

 

[Panda]

How barbaric to put someone on trial for a mere cartoon.

 

[Gharib]

How barbaric to put someone on trial for a mere cartoon.

please show me where i have said the he must be put on trial simply for a mere cartoon?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Really? By punishing him with the possibility of death over a drawing...we won't be proving him right?

If the idea is that a strong reaction will stop these sorts of incidents from happening, then it's completely wrong. The violent reaction to these cartoons was a major reason behind "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day".

 

[beenie]

If the idea is that a strong reaction will stop these sorts of incidents from happening, then it's completely wrong. The violent reaction to these cartoons was a major reason behind "Everybody Draw Muhammad Day".

Exactly, that's my point. Ignoring Westgaard and moving on really is the biggest insult to his ego. He's insignificant to Islam anyway, so why do we care so much? We've given him exactly the response he drew about.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to grasp.

 

[gnostic]

so if a guy in country A presses the red button to launch a nuke over country B for no reason can country B put him on trial and even punish him?

The whole "nuking" thing is silly.

And I don't see how drawing images of prophet can be considered then worse than killing people in the tens of thousands.

As ssainhu said (see quote below), you can't make such silly comparison, because the Danish artist didn't kill anyone, and Muslims should forget and let it go. Bringing up again, again, doesn't help Muslims whatsoever.

It's a picture, one that would have been long forgotten if Muslims would just let it be instead of making a huge deal about it. Sure, it's not allowed to draw images of Prophet Muhammad in MUSLIM countries, but not outside of them. Why do we care so much? It's some dude drawing an image. It's like banning books: no one hears much about it or knows much about it until we make a big ol' deal about it.

Forget about it and move on. If another image pops up, ignore that one too; they'll get bored and move on to drawing more Osama bin Laden cartoons or something.

Let the guy go and stop proving him right that we're intolerant.

The only violent reaction that came from these cartoons came from the some of the Muslims themselves. The destruction of properties, and death of a Christian nun, murdered for no reason except that she was a Christian and they were offended by cartoons, which the woman had nothing to do, nor possibly know about them. And then there were couple of attempts on Westergarrd's life.

The only thing that Westergarrd prove, is that some Muslims are violent people, and if people are violent, then so is Islam. This generalisation, which I don't believe this to be true, but it certainly doesn't help the image of Islam.

The nature of cartoons are satire. Satire is usually use to make fun of political or public figures, and their actions. Public figures would also include religious figures, dead or alive. I have seen far more images of Jesus and Moses, and even of God, than that of Muhammad. If you're offended, then you have the right to be offended, but I don't think murdering or attempting to do so, or sending death threats, to be acceptable at a personal, legal or moral level. Murder and image are 2 things, and they can't be made the same.

sister, i'm sorry if you take this the wrong way, but your level of love for the prophet is very low. remember no one will enter paradise unless they love Allah more than everything, and then love Muhamed more than everything after Allah.

I don't think so.

Are you comparing the love of Muhammad to the love Allah?

If so, then you are basically worshipping Muhammad as much as you do with god. That's basically idol-worshipping, which happened to be a sin in Islam.

Another name for idol worship is hero worship. It (worship) is not so much as praying, as it is about DEVOTION. Devotion is much about "love", "dedication" and "loyalty" than it is as about praying.

If you think that drawing cartoons of prophet, or naming teddy-bear after prophet, or any other deeds, deem to be punishable as crime of blasphemy, then you've simply have elevated Muhammad on the pedestal of godhood.

Even killing in the name of Muhammad or prophet would be considered as idol-worship. And if you think a person burning the Qur'an to be punishable, then basically you are worshipping a book, made of papers and inks.

I just wonder how Muslims consider themselves so different from Christians, who appeared to be praying to saints, when they "love" Muhammad so much to the point of fanaticism, that they are willing to harm or kill someone. That to me is worse than any Christian praying to a saint.

Could you or would you harm another person if he or she said something you don't like about your prophet?

And if you harm the person, then how does this help you?

Can you justify your action?

Or do you ignore it or tolerate it?

​

 

[gnostic]

As to the OP, I think it is pointless exercise. But hey, if it make Muslims feel better about it, then go ahead with the trial.

But if they think they can arrest him and actually punish him for a crime he didn't commit in Jordan, it is a waste of time and money. And the only Jordan court can do this, is ask Denmark for Westergarrd's extradition or worse, to abduct him.

Abduction is crime itself, so how can committing one crime to try another crime, make it any better, is beyond me. Two wrongs don't make it right.

 

[Panda]

please show me where i have said the he must be put on trial simply for a mere cartoon?

What gave you the impression I was aiming my remark at you?