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Joseph Smith - Prophet of God

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Maybe you can choose what is true and what isn't. The best I can do is try and figure it out.

I also can't choose what 2+2 equals. Sometimes it would be nice to be able to, but it just isn't a choice.
Sure you can. Use a different base system.

The thing is, we don't know what's true. We can believe certain things to be true. But, then again, that's a choice. We can also choose how we will respond in the real world to what we believe...
 

SoyLeche

meh...
Sure you can. Use a different base system.
Try that one on your taxes this year - the IRS will get a kick out of it :)

That's not really changing the number anyway - it's just changing the way the number is described. 4 is 4, whether it is written as 100 (binary), 11 (base 3), 4 (base 10) or 4 (base 13).

The thing is, we don't know what's true. We can believe certain things to be true. But, then again, that's a choice. We can also choose how we will respond in the real world to what we believe...
We don't know what's true, but that doesn't change the fact that it is true. I personally try to make my beliefs about what is true line up as well as possible with what is actually true. I'm sure I'm missing the mark a lot, but that is the goal. And, your opinion of what I should believe to be true really hold no weight with me whatsoever - sorry if that offends you in any way, but it is the case.

I would love to be able to say "everyone has priesthood authority". That would be wonderful. That does not line up with what I perceive to be true though - so I can't say it. I am beholden to what God has revealed to me on the subject. I can't go outside of that and still claim to by trying to base my truth on actual truth - no matter how much you don't like it. If I were to do so I'd be basing my truth on the whims of Sojourner. Either way I may be correct or I may be wrong - but this way seems more honest to me.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Try that one on your taxes this year - the IRS will get a kick out of it :)

That's not really changing the number anyway - it's just changing the way the number is described. 4 is 4, whether it is written as 100 (binary), 11 (base 3) or 4 (base 10).


We don't know what's true, but that doesn't change the fact that it is true. I personally try to make my beliefs about what is true line up as well as possible with what is actually true. I'm sure I'm missing the mark a lot, but that is the goal. And, your opinion of what I should believe to be true really hold no weight with me whatsoever - sorry if that offends you in any way, but it is the case.

I would love to be able to say "everyone has priesthood authority". That would be wonderful. That does not line up with what I perceive to be true though - so I can't say it. I am beholden to what God has revealed to me on the subject. I can't go outside of that and still claim to by trying to base my truth on actual truth - no matter how much you don't like it. If I were to do so I'd be basing my truth on the whims of Sojourner. Either way I may be correct or I may be wrong - but this way seems more honest to me.
So you go merrily along, excluding people, telling them they're wrong and you're right, tra-la-la, as if it were true. And it makes you feel ever so much better about yourself, because you can say, "I'm proclaiming Truth, as I believe it" (No matter how much that poclamation may harm others' sense of well-being).

Good for you. I'm very glad for your sense of well-being. But that position doesn't build in much concern for the well-being of your neighbor...which is the basis for the whole Law, as Jesus pointed out.

A position based upon self-rightreousness is what Jesus spent a lot of his time railing against in Matthew. I'm sure those Pharisees were pressing the "foul/presecution" button right and left! And somebody ended up getting killed over it!

I would love for you to be able to say that you care more for the well-being of your neighbor than you do for your own comfort level. But maybe that's asking too much, because you're more interested in what feels honest to you than you are in honoring the views of other people, whom you claim to be your brethren.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
BTW - do you know why mathematicians always confuse Halloween with Christmas?

Because Oct 31 = Dec 25

BTW -- do you know why Christians keep excluding other Christians? Because they think that "2+2=4" is more important than "God loves everyone."
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
How can Soy be true to his neighbor is he's not first true to himself?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think you may have misunderstood his post.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
BTW -- do you know why Christians keep excluding other Christians? Because they think that "2+2=4" is more important than "God loves everyone."
There you are again claiming that I don't believe that "God loves everyone". That gets a bit tiresome, you know. And I never said I didn't honor other's views - in fact, it seems to me that I honor other's views a bit more than you do, because I honor yours but you obviously don't honor mine. I'm concerned by the fact that you don't seem to recognize that you are doing at least as little loving of your neighbor as anyone else I've seen.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
No such thing as bad advertising huh .... I'm not so sure.
LOL. Actually, I don't think there is. It seems like the more bad press there is about us, the more interested people become in learning about us. Every time some church shows "The Godmakers," a few more people become LDS.

By the way, I love your avatar. I can't wait for next season to start! The withdrawals are getting pretty bad.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
So you go merrily along, excluding people, telling them they're wrong and you're right, tra-la-la, as if it were true. And it makes you feel ever so much better about yourself, because you can say, "I'm proclaiming Truth, as I believe it" (No matter how much that poclamation may harm others' sense of well-being).

Good for you. I'm very glad for your sense of well-being. But that position doesn't build in much concern for the well-being of your neighbor...which is the basis for the whole Law, as Jesus pointed out.

A position based upon self-rightreousness is what Jesus spent a lot of his time railing against in Matthew. I'm sure those Pharisees were pressing the "foul/presecution" button right and left! And somebody ended up getting killed over it!

I would love for you to be able to say that you care more for the well-being of your neighbor than you do for your own comfort level. But maybe that's asking too much, because you're more interested in what feels honest to you than you are in honoring the views of other people, whom you claim to be your brethren.
Wow, who's the self-righteous one here? :rolleyes: You know, Sojourner, for someone who is so big on how important it is for us to love others, you might try showing a little of that love for your LDS brothers and sisters. We're not anywhere near as critical of your faith as you are of ours.
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Don't post any spoilers, please, I've got the last season on TiVo and am only halfway through. Favorite character: Bill's Mom.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
This thread is wandering way off topic....Smith profit for God is the topic !

melissa g

Really? :sarcastic

I could of sworn it was the pink elephants of Mars. Or perhaps proving the Mormons wrong, or telling them that their faith is a bunch of lies, you know, the usual. :rolleyes:
 
I don't believe he was a prophets any more than Mohamed. I can not say I have read LDS book
However In Galations 1:9 " ....If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received then let him be accursed. We then entered into the age of grace where God is no longer
making stage presentations. And no more prophets until the end of the age. God also stated but I
am still looking for it ..I will not always reside with man.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
I don't believe he was a prophets any more than Mohamed. I can not say I have read LDS book
However In Galations 1:9 " ....If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received then let him be accursed. We then entered into the age of grace where God is no longer
making stage presentations. And no more prophets until the end of the age. God also stated but I
am still looking for it ..I will not always reside with man.

Key word in the scripture you quote: "any other."

We do not believe Joseph Smith taught another gospel.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
We then entered into the age of grace where God is no longer making stage presentations. And no more prophets until the end of the age. God also stated but I am still looking for it.
Well, good luck. I think you're going to need it. And let us know, please, if you find what you're looking for. While you're at it, maybe you could explain why Jesus Christ himself called prophets if He had no intention of using them and why He prophesied that they would be rejected? I think I'm not going to hold my breath, if you don't mind, but I will watch for your answer.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Is the Book of Mormon another Testament of Jesus Christ??
"The Bible clearly teaches another Christ from the one the Mormons teach ..... and another gospel..."
I new it was not my imagination just old stuff in the back
That's what you were trying to remember? I thought it was something scriptural! I could post a list of a couple of hundred links to anti-Mormon websites (except that it's against forum rules to do so). If you want to try to prove that the Jesus Christ I worship is different than the one in the Bible, you're going to have to do a lot better than that! You sound as if you'd be fun to debate one-on-one on the subject, though. Interested?
 

Melissa G

Non Veritas Verba Amanda
If I was, and I was, a Christian, in the Church of England. Then my take is that Smith, is a false prohpet as spoke about in Mt7:15;1, Jn 4:1, and Mt 24:11 and Mk 13:22. Even worse for Smith, is the Muslims believe Mohammad was God's last prophet.

Of course the last days are a long time in a coming...

Melissa G
 
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