tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
You said a mouthful there:foot:
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Joseph Smith Was Not A Martyr
- Thread starter ljam49
- Start date
You said a mouthful there:foot:
Something like "that's not my style. When real prophets kill people, they do it with bears", maybe?
Exactly! And just because the bible was written, doesn't make it so. Oh and just to be clear, those scrolls also say that his uncle, his apostle Thomas and Mary Magdelene travelled with him.None of the disciples were asked to go with HIM.Anyway, there are lots of things written about lots of things, that doesn't make it so.
No I don't believe Adam and Eve knew more than we do now. I think we have matured.
Zadok
Zadok
A very interesting question - I assume that it is "Baptist" doctrine that any effort at self defense that results in the death of another is "Murder". Also it appears to me that you are siding with those that killed Joseph Smith and it is your witness (based on your understanding of the teachings of Christ) that his death was completely justified? Reason - Because Joseph attempted to defend himself and others.
I assume that you reject the writtings of Moses for this same reason.
Zadok
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
I believe the Bible is inspired. I feel that those other texts are only stories written by people.
LittleNipper
Well-Known Member
And I believe Adam lived 930 years.
Well of course you do. But you just join the ranks of many other religions that also believe their "books" are inspired. Doesn't mean you or any of them are right though. In fact, there are lots of things that would point to them not being inspired by god. Your god is no better than anyone else's and in some cases he is a lot worse.
What has that got to do with matured? I know lots of old people that have never "matured". Besides, I wasn't speaking of one or two people, I meant humanity in general. We've been around a lot longer than 930 years.
"but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Hmm.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
It was definitely the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor's press that accounted for Joseph's being imprisoned, but I suspect that the mob who killed him and his brother were just taking advantage of the opportunity to do what they had their minds set on doing.
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Oh for crying out loud. That's how other people feel about the bible, and? Please don't attempt to turn this into anther bible V BoM debate. You couldn't win it on the thread you started, why go that way with this one?
Witch of Hope
Member
Why do Mormons think that Joseph Smith was a martyr? Good question. And I think, the answer depends on how a martyr is defined. Did Joseph Smith die for his faith? No. He died because he was in jail, where he was waiting on his hearing/trial.. Why was he there? Was he innocent there or potentially guilty, even if sentences not legally? He was there because of the destruction of the printer press of the Nauvoo Expositor, and some of the other things which the governor Ford at that time summarized so:
Now I express to you my opinion that your manner was a rough act of violence against the laws and liberties of the people concerning the destruction of the press. It may have been of full defamation, but this doesn't authorize you to destroy it.
There are many newspapers in this state which insulted me more than during 1 year erroneously, however, my esteem is before the freedom of the press and the rights of free nation under a republican government of the kind that I would pour the last drop of my blood to protect such publishing companies against every unlawful violence. You have violated the constitution in at least four points. You have violated the part in her who declares that printer pressing free and for the abuse should be responsible by them and that the truth may be reserved with arguments... No civilized country can tolerate such a manner, still much less it can be tolerated in this free country of the United States. (Letter of governor Ford, as in the History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 534-536, printed, translated from German to Englisch (not a perfect translation))
There are many newspapers in this state which insulted me more than during 1 year erroneously, however, my esteem is before the freedom of the press and the rights of free nation under a republican government of the kind that I would pour the last drop of my blood to protect such publishing companies against every unlawful violence. You have violated the constitution in at least four points. You have violated the part in her who declares that printer pressing free and for the abuse should be responsible by them and that the truth may be reserved with arguments... No civilized country can tolerate such a manner, still much less it can be tolerated in this free country of the United States. (Letter of governor Ford, as in the History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 534-536, printed, translated from German to Englisch (not a perfect translation))
Wanted he to suffer the martyr's death? No, he wanted that the Nauvoo legion freed him. He shot down two men with a smuggled gun, and wounded fatally. And he called the distress signal of the Freemasons when he fell from the window(Smith was Freemason). Does such a martyr of faith act? No! Thus a coward acts!!!!!
Mormons know all that. Why they say the untruthfulness? Maybe because myths has become more importantly than the reality?
Mormons know all that. Why they say the untruthfulness? Maybe because myths has become more importantly than the reality?
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Touche!!
They did die - they suffered a spiritual death (separation from God).
You really think it's that simple? Are you aware Smith was persecuted long before any of the events you describe?
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Huh. It's funny how a methaphor must always be made to make the bible make sence. In your religion souls are eternal, yet you propose a 'spiritual' death, a rather contradictory idea.
That's right...because the Bible is obviously meant to be taken literally. :sarcastic
Humanistheart
Well-Known Member
Because the bible's obviusly a collection of primitive tribal stories and has no truth to it without inventing some.
Because that's obviously what you believe because you're an atheist. Many have discovered the truth in the Bible - that you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.