Just 43% of Americans Identify as Protestant

[SeekingAllTruth]

I believe God is a great and loving God.
Even if I read your posts.

Consensual sex can lead to an abortion.
In Germany, there are some 100k abortions every year. I would estimate a 99% of these abortion occured after consensual sex.
The unborn life suffers here.

You can enjoy stuff.

Original sin is the name of a theological concept (from the Catholics and others).
You won't find this concept of being sinful for being born in the Bible.

Instead, Paul says, all people are "made sinners". Romans 5:19.
In my opinion it's like being infected by an illness.
If you come from a family at which your father yelled at you... you will end up yelling at your children probably... and so on.
In my opinion, it's about bad habits being passed on from the moment Adam started sinning.
The Bible says frankly: all people sinned.

But God provided the solution: Jesus Christ.
This is how I see the situation here.

Jesus said, "I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." Jesus acknowledges that one can live a righteous life without having to accept him as Lord and savior. I don't subscribe to that old Isaiah, "All have sinned and fallen short" Jesus makes it clear he negated that.

 

[Nivek001]

Some of your questions are backwards, the last one for example. The burden of proof always lies upon the person that makes the positive claim.

Actually, the burden of proof is on the one who is claiming their position is fact not belief. You don’t need to prove a belief is fact BECAUSE it’s a belief that something is true, not a fact that something is true.

And when it comes to supporting the Jesus stories with reliable sources that simply does not seem to happen.

Again , unless you are claiming that your position that a lack of evidence means that you believe is not true you have to prove HOW a lack of evidence means it’s proof that there is no God who taught reliance on faith instead of relying on established evidence for the whole world to see.

As for Matthew it appears that he was writing for Greek speaking Jews.
How does it appear that Matthew was addressing only to Greek speaking Jews as opposed to just that we only can find so far a Greek language Gospel?

Why would Matthew only write to Greek speaking Jews and not intended for all Jews?

It appears that there were a fair number of them at that time. His virgin birth story was partially based upon a misinterpretation found in the Septuagint,

What misinterpretation is that?

 

[Nivek001]

”If it has to be explained to you why genocide is bad, why summarily executing everyone is wrong, why killing infants and innocents is wrong, why slavery is wrong, then you have a very seriously flawed moral compass.”

So, you figure you are more moral than God even though when you kill someone it’s just the end even though that doesn’t apply to God?

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Unlike us God deals with individuals living beyond this life. God has the power to give life and give back life I once that life is taken.

Also, in case you haven’t noticed but God doesn’t just take certain groups or nations to extinction he does that to ALL PEOPLE from ALL NATIONS.

It’s believed that was the deal we made with God agreeing to come to earth in mortality that we all would die and God made that possible so that we all die. What’s concerning is that you figure it’s morally higher for God to simply let us all live mortally in unbelief even though doing so has greater implications beyond this life.

The Old Testament shows the implications when Israel did not follow through fully when they were commanded to wipe out an entire city. They did fall into unbelief and that had ramifications for their eternal well being after they died. And to point out once again. All of those Israelites from the Old Testament died off as well.

You are still not bothering to consider that there may be a bigger picture here than just this immediate mortal life when it comes to God. What is your proof that there is no bigger picture here to consider when it comes to eternity?

“And people are leaving Christianity because people know these things are wrong, and they know not even god should get to be exempt from hypocrisy by moving the goalposts.”

Again, you haven’t established that we never agreed to come to this earth to be tested and that test would be finished when we die.

Again, just because you insist that God is not like the state, who has no authority to punish violators like most of us, does not prove it’s a fact that such a God has no such authority to punish violators.


“He says thou shalt not kill, but what was done was sending bears to maul children to death for making fun of a bald prophet. That is cruel, wicked, and evil.”

Again, where is your proof that we never agreed with God to enter into this life as mortals? Again, where is your proof that God makes the innocent children who died as children suffer in any way after their brief trial on this earth is over?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again , unless you are claiming that your position that a lack of evidence means that you believe is not true you have to prove HOW a lack of evidence means it’s proof that there is no God who taught reliance on faith instead of relying on established evidence for the whole world to see.

No, this is the typical shifting of the burden of proof and distortion of the argument of theists. One always starts in a position of nonbelief until evidence is supplied. And no one is claiming "proof of no God". No such proof is needed. If a person cannot support their claims why support them. The problem is that God arguments often cause people to reason irrationally. For example you would have no problem with someone saying "I don't believe in Bigfoot because sufficient evidence for his existence has not been supplied". The same argument applies to God. A lack of evidence leads properly to a lack of belief.

How does it appear that Matthew was addressing only to Greek speaking Jews as opposed to just that we only can find so far a Greek language Gospel?

Why would Matthew only write to Greek speaking Jews and not intended for all Jews?

From my understanding that is what biblical scholars have concluded.

What misinterpretation is that?

The mistranslation of "almah" as "virgin". Plus if one reads the entire prophecy in context it is rather obviously not about Jesus.

And you need to learn how to fix your quotes.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Yes, Jehovah did. Our first human parents were made that way. Unfortunately, they made some bad choices, and rebelled. They lost some of those traits that originally came naturally. As their offspring, we couldn’t inherit what they had lost.

But I know many people who display those qualities,
Honest
Truthful
compassionate.
peaceful
loving
helpful
conscientious.

My wife is one....I try.
We all have the ability, to some degree or another. It’s a struggle, many times.
But our built-in conscience helps.

So far all the ancestor species of humans found, were much like we are. Warlike, tribal killers. And top predators.
There is no evidence any of them were naturally peaceful.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yeah, it’s just despicable, God wanting us to ‘love our neighbors as ourselves,’ (Mark 12:31) and ‘becoming kind to one another, tenderly compassionate, freely forgiving.’ - Colossians 3:12-14
Absolutely horrid.

Sure. In a thread about people leaving that religion, let us not acknowledge the criticisms stated and instead act like they don't exist and instead try to overshadow them with something that sounds good.
There is nothing loving about demanding an entire city be put to death of they start to worship another god. That is wicked, that is evil, that is inexcusable by any good sense of morality.

(You have posted in the past about the issues with your parents while growing up, I’m sorry that they didn’t follow these guidelines. It’s not God’s fault.)

Did you miss where I said it was the Church? It was those in a very rural and very conservative place. It was the Bible itself that gave me nightmares of going to Hell. Because judgement, punishments, wrath, anger, we see that side 9f Jehovah very frequently. He's such a sadist he even allegedly sent his own son to be tortured to death.

 

[Nivek001]

I think you are trying to ask about whether this is the only life we have.

If God exists, then this isn't the only life we have.

And your proof that this life is the only life we would ever get from a God who is also believed to have taught reliance on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see is what?

 

[Trailblazer]

The mistranslation of "almah" as "virgin". Plus if one reads the entire prophecy in context it is rather obviously not about Jesus.

Which prophecy is that?

 

[Trailblazer]

And your proof that this life is the only life we would ever get from a God who is also believed to have taught reliance on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see is what?

Does your church teach that this life is the only life we would ever get from God?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Which prophecy is that?

In Isaiah 7. The mistranslated verse is in Isaiah 7 14. And that may not even have been a translation in the first place. Some of the Bible "prophecies" are actually history written as prophecy. It was a literary tool that was used more than once. The so called prophecies were written sometimes centuries after the event.

 

[Nivek001]

No, this is the typical shifting of the burden of proof and distortion of the argument of theists.”

How does you saying this is a typical shifting of the burden of proof prove that this is a shifting of the burden of proof? How does you saying “One always starts in a position of nonbelief until evidence is supplied” prove that is the case?

You aren’t claiming no proof of no God but you still claim there is no God anyway. You are also not declaring that it’s your belief that a lack of evidence means there is no God who wants us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see.

HOW do you figure you are fine to claim one conclusion that is not based on belief without evidence to support that claim but not you must have proof to establish another claim even though that other claim is not based on claiming fact but claims belief that something or someone is true?

How do you figure if you insist your position is right long enough it will somehow make what you are insisting magically become evidence?

“If a person cannot support their claims why support them.”

Why would one have to support what they claim to believe in is not a belief to begin with but is a fact instead?

You claim that a lack of evidence means one’s belief in a God who wants to rely on faith instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see is false, and yet you provide zero evidence to support that claim. So, why do you support that claim anyway?

“The problem is that God arguments often cause people to reason irrationally. For example you would have no problem with someone saying "I don't believe in Bigfoot because sufficient evidence for his existence has not been supplied".

So, where is it believed that there is a Bigfoot who wants us to rely on faith in that Bigfoot instead of relying on established evidence and that Bigfoot has a plan that if we follow that Bigfoot’s plan will bring eternal happiness?

If you are going to make a comparison here then make it an accurate one. Even if you think that it’s ridiculous for a God to do that for us does not make your opinion that it’s ridiculous anything mire than your mere opinion or in other words your belief.

So, when it comes to determining if there is a God who will answer prayers regarding if he really is there through acting on faith there is o my one way to find out and it’s not on your baseless claim that a lack of evidence proves there is no God who wants us to rely on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see.


And you need to learn how to fix your quotes.

What have I quoted that was not accurate in quoting?

 

[Nivek001]

Does your church teach that this life is the only life we would ever get from God?

No.


21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Corinthians 15:21-22

I do believe that there is another life we will all receive after we finish this life.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

@Nivek001
Lots of assumptions there. I wouldn't kill anyone, for starters.
Amd tested? What test? This was not something I consented to or was made aware of.
And it's more assumptions. Yes, Jehovah is morally bankrupt. I gave numerous example. That doesn't mean I'm commenting on my own character. That doesn't mean I'm looking to excuse my own wrong doings.

 

[Trailblazer]

In Isaiah 7. The mistranslated verse is in Isaiah 7 14. And that may not even have been a translation in the first place. Some of the Bible "prophecies" are actually history written as prophecy. It was a literary tool that was used more than once. The so called prophecies were written sometimes centuries after the event.

Some of the Old Testament prophecies contain historical events that will occur in the future, when the Messiah comes, since much of the OT is about the Messiah that will come in the future (from when the OT was written), in the last days. Jesus was 'a Messiah' but He was never slated by God to be the Messiah of the last days since He was never slated by God to return to earth after He died on the cross and ascended to heaven.

One prophecy that is about historical events that would occur in the future is Isaiah 9:6-7.

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Christians say that Isaiah 9:6-7 is about Jesus but that is impossible since Jesus never did these things and Jesus was never slated to return to earth and Jesus never promised to return to earth. Jesus even said that His work was finished in the world and he was no more in the world. (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

There are many, many more of these prophecies all throughout the OT. Another OT prophecy that refers to future historical evens is Micah 7:12 and it refers to the Messiah, where He would come from and travel to during His mission on earth. It is ironic that the Jews do not even know that this prophecy is about the Messiah that they have long awaited. They believe it refers to something else, but in the context of the chapter it is obvious that it refers to the Messiah.

Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do believe that there is another life we will all receive after we finish this life.

Me too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What have I quoted that was not accurate in quoting?

I had to fix your quotes for you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Some of the Old Testament prophecies contain historical events that will occur in the future, when the Messiah comes, since much of the OT is about the Messiah that will come in the future (from when the OT was written), in the last days. Jesus was 'a Messiah' but He was never slated by God to be the Messiah of the last days since He was never slated by God to return to earth after He died on the cross and ascended to heaven.

One prophecy that is about historical events that would occur in the future is Isaiah 9:6-7.

Isaiah 9:6-7 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Christians say that Isaiah 9:6-7 is about Jesus but that is impossible since Jesus never did these things and Jesus was never slated to return to earth and Jesus never promised to return to earth. Jesus even said that His work was finished in the world and he was no more in the world. (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30)

There are many, many more of these prophecies all throughout the OT. Another OT prophecy that refers to future historical evens is Micah 7:12 and it refers to the Messiah, where He would come from and travel to during His mission on earth. It is ironic that the Jews do not even know that this prophecy is about the Messiah that they have long awaited. They believe it refers to something else, but in the context of the chapter it is obvious that it refers to the Messiah.

Micah 7:12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.

Jews, Christians, and Baha'i all have different interpretations of the prophecy. And I don't see where you get the idea that Jesus never said that he would be back from. One of the worst failed prophecies in the Bible involve the end days when Jesus was supposed to have returned.

You might want to read this, it is a very short article that explains the tool I mentioned earlier. And Daniel may be at least partially that sort of work:

Vaticinium ex eventu - Wikipedia

 

[Deeje]

Bold above--the Bible has been corrupted by pagan influences, in other words?

No, I said that Bible translators have incorrectly rendered original language words to support their false doctrines. “Hell” is a classic example. There are several words that are translated “Hell” in the KJV for example, implying that they mean the same thing, when they have completely different meanings to those who read and understood those original words. Some research will reveal the truth.

Early Christianity was corrupted by pagan influences, just the same as Judaism was....but that is no surprise because Jesus and his apostles foretold that this would happen. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43)

Most of the core doctrines of Christendom are not found in the Bible, but originated from pagan ideas introduced into church doctrine very early on. These include the trinity, immortality of the soul and hellfire. None of these originated from the Bible.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It was the Bible itself that gave me nightmares of going to Hell.

No, it was people’s faulty translations & interpretations of Scripture, that led to your nightmares.

The Bible teaches that the dead “know nothing”; their “thoughts perish...[they] go back to the ground.” Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 146:3-4.

The dead can’t be tormented or feel pain, if they know nothing & have no thought processes.

But I know that many (most?) people raised in ‘Christian’ households believe in Hellfire crap. They’re completely misled.

Case in point: the main quality a Christian should display, is love. But I’ve known too many who were raised with fear. (You seem like one.) Parents should love their children, not instill fear in them! That stems from faulty teachings.

Fact: Other than in a fictional account, Jesus never used the word “Hell” in relation to fire! Bible translations that say that, are mistranslations!

Jesus was in Hell for a little while after he died. Psalms 16:10; and Acts of the Apostles 2:27, applies to Jesus.

Job prayed to go there, to rid himself of his pain. Job 14:13

Jacob (a righteous person) said that when he died, he was going to Hell. Genesis 37:35; Genesis 44:29.

So many lies have been told....no wonder Christendom is losing its members!

Again I must say, I’m really sorry for the needless fear & pain you experienced....your parents, like so many others, were misled too.

To me, it just reinforces Jesus’ words at Matthew 7:21-23, and Paul’s at 1 Corinthians 4:4. Satan is “the god of this world.” Even Jesus called him “the ruler of this world.”

Not for much longer. Hebrews 2:14.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

No, I said that Bible translators have incorrectly rendered original language words to support their false doctrines. “Hell” is a classic example. There are several words that are translated “Hell” in the KJV for example, implying that they mean the same thing, when they have completely different meanings to those who read and understood those original words. Some research will reveal the truth.

Early Christianity was corrupted by pagan influences, just the same as Judaism was....but that is no surprise because Jesus and his apostles foretold that this would happen. (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43)

Most of the core doctrines of Christendom are not found in the Bible, but originated from pagan ideas introduced into church doctrine very early on. These include the trinity, immortality of the soul and hellfire. None of these originated from the Bible.

Well, I happen to agree with you. Paganism is responsible for many of the beliefs held by the RCC and Protestant religions from early on. Madonna and child is a direct rip-off of Osiris and Horus. The pagans didn't want to let go of their beliefs when they got into the RCC so they tricked the high up clergy into having artists paint the Virgin Mary and baby Jesus as substitutes for Osiris and Horus.

 

[halbhh]

And your proof that this life is the only life we would ever get from a God who is also believed to have taught reliance on faith in him instead of relying on established evidence for the world to see is what?

? Perhaps we have a miscommunication. It happens in the murky waters of internet communications ( ). I believe as laid out in the Apostles' Creed -- including the "resurrection of the body and the life everlasting", a useful summary (though a couple of lines near the end can need clarification, such as for instance that 'catholic' refers to the unity of all believers).