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Sorry, but that's a misuse of the parable.
Sure, the Watchtower has predicted dates for the end of the world several times in their history, but guess what? We are still here! False prophets! By their fruit...Be careful what you wish for....it may be closer than you think. Jesus said it will come "like a thief in the night".....with no warning apart from what has already been given.
You are certain that you are right though, never a doubt in the back of your mind? I find that hard to believe, but I'll leave that one for you to work out for yourself.
Death of a love one causes sadness and grief naturally, but to say it robs us of our joy is false. We take the warm memories of that person with us as we continue life's journey, and we learn to smile again. I don't dread death, I "die" every day when I sleep, death is just not waking up. I wont know anything about it when it comes will I?
Well the Sadducees didn't believe in an afterlife, one of the top of my head, so there! Different religions allow for atheism - the "afterlife" can be metaphorical not a literal place like you believe. As for the track record of humanity, actually it does inspire me, we are the most successful species on the planet in terms of our dominance. It is easy to forget that our 21st century comfortable lives are only possible because of the science and technology that has made it so. Our ancestors lived shorter and much harder lives, a simple infected cut could kill you because there were no antibiotics, plagues wiped out thousands because we had no means of understanding them or combating them other than a superstitious belief that we must be doing something wrong, and the deity is punishing us. That is where sacrifice, even human sacrifice came from; to appease the god(s) for "natural disasters".
I'll let you debate that one with a Christian, but "total distortion"? Jesus told the dying thief in Luke "today you will be with me in paradise", what "conditions" was the thief meeting? Heaven is mentioned many times in the NT, but it is only the lucky 144, 000 JWs getting in according to you right? Hell is mentioned many times in the bible also; 20 Top Bible Verses About Hell - Scripture Quotes
It isn't hard. Why do you say that?You never did answer me....what does God demand that is so unreasonable?
Why is there guilt? Where did this faculty come from? What is the point of it? Isn't it designed to act as a moral compass?
It isn't designed to just slap us, but to motivate us to right a wrong. Why is that an undesirable thing?
Jesus was a Jewish teacher who only commanded a small following in his lifetime, the marketing came later. We won't agree on the Watchtower Deeje, if being a JW works for you, and you do not campaign to restrict other people's freedoms, then fine, I have no quarrel with you. Don't ask me to admire or respect your religious beliefs though, that just won't be happening!
Our personal wants, desires and wishes don't constitute reality. Reality exists regardless of what we want to believe.Whatever gave you that idea?
Be careful what you wish for....it may be closer than you think. Jesus said it will come "like a thief in the night".....with no warning apart from what has already been given.
I have questioned everything all my life. That is why I am confident of my answers. I take nothing at face value and my life experiences speak louder than any book.
Exactly. Death robs us of our joy because we can't keep anyone we love, alive. To lose loved ones in death is devastating, so without the hope that the Bible holds out for them, what do we have? Nothing to hope for and a dread of the inevitable happening too soon.
What belief system teaches that death is the end of life? Only atheism as far as I know. It has no hope of anything better than what man can provide....does his track record inspire you? Are you glad to be at the mercy of man's inhumanity? Even in countries where there is relative peace......threats from many sources invade their lives and rob them of security.
Funny, but that is not "the gospel" as I now understand it.....that is Christendom's version, in the mistaken notion that everyone ends up in either heaven or hell......that is a total distortion of what the Bible teaches. Humans were designed to live on earth. Angels were designed to live in heaven.
Something is required of us, and if those conditions are not met, access will be denied, just like it is in any application for citizenship in any country. (Matthew 24:13) Those who simply acknowledge Jesus as Lord but who do not meet the conditions will be very disappointed. (Matthew 7:21-23)
That would be because the Bible says you can't have one without the other. "Faith without works is dead"...remember?
It isn't hard. Why do you say that?You never did answer me....what does God demand that is so unreasonable?
Why is there guilt? Where did this faculty come from? What is the point of it? Isn't it designed to act as a moral compass?
It isn't designed to just slap us, but to motivate us to right a wrong. Why is that an undesirable thing?
You do realize that marketers base their techniques on the way Jesus preached, because he was so successful despite the fact that his message was so unpopular? It is such a successful technique that it is utilized in the commercial word.
The blood transfusion stuff is also reasonable as the medical system is finding out in recent decades.....and shunning is merely like putting a naughty child in "time out". You can disagree as much as you wish. It is Biblical, and like the prodigal son...it works.
Everything in this life is a test. Whether we pass it or not is up to us. It has nothing to do with luck.
I still have a book about JWs I purchased when I was a Christian, it gives a detailed account of all the world endings prophesied by the Watchtower with extracts from JW literature. I was teasing really, I know the Watchtower have stopped making such forecasts, 1975 was the last one right?
It doesn't feel "wrong" to me though, one of the defining moments in growing up is that things die; people, friends, parents. Religious people cry at funerals don't they? Why? Should they not be joyous if they really believe their religious dogma?
Well thank you for that, you have "bared your soul" there, when you could have just told me to buzz off. I agree that hell is a twisted horrible idea, but I don't agree that the idea is unbiblical. All down to interpretation, just a pity the deity didn't make it more obvious to dullards like me
So Yahweh never killed people in the bible? He never approved of tribes of Israel killing other people? Violence has always been a part of human history, whether "divinely inspired" or not.
It is what you make it gal. I'm a secular humanist, I'm all for community."our 21st century comfortable lives are only possible because of the science and technology that has made it so."......our comfortable lifestyle is killing us an inch at a time. We are losing our moral capacity, our language skills, our parenting skills and our capacity to care for our fellow man. What has happened to neighborhoods? Where I live, no one talks much with their neighbors. Everyone is so consumed with their own selfish lives that social media now makes up the bulk of people's "friendships". Pathetic, isn't it?
Yes, we are pretty damn clever! Even given the over-prescription of antibiotics we are looking at ways around it, alternatives are being researched as we speak. Personally I avoid taking any pills unless absolutely necessary, but should I contract something serious I'll be off to see a physician, not my nearest JW!"a simple infected cut could kill you because there were no antibiotics, plagues wiped out thousands because we had no means of understanding them or combating them other than a superstitious belief that we must be doing something wrong, and the deity is punishing us"
Today we are seeing the results of the over-prescription of antibiotics. We are facing the emergence of "superbugs" that nothing will treat....epidemics of antibiotic resistant bacteria are expected and the best place to pick up infections is now in hospitals.....so how clever are we really?
I'll pop all the pills he or she advises!
Rubbish, I work in the food industry so you are on my turf here. If you choose to eat junk food, high in fat, high in salt, then you are going to run into health problems. There is plenty of affordable healthy food out there, and even the "high fat, high salt" stuff is okay in moderation. Nothing wrong with processed food, just balance it out with fruit and veg I say.Are you serious? The food we put on our tables, is devoid of most nutrients and barely keeps people alive, let alone nourished and healthy. Shelf life is the prime concern with the food industry, so processed foods have to be devoid of all living content so that it will last longer on the shelves.....otherwise artificial preservatives keep the bugs at bay. Humans and animals are designed to eat living food. Medications, alcohol and junk food destroy good gut bacteria and we all wonder why we succumb to disease?
In the 21st century I'd agree, but for our ancestors it wasn't the case. Too much rain or not enough rain meant the crops failed and people starved to death. Nomadic tribes were almost certainly born out of a need to go wherever food was available, not because they fancied a change of scenery.Famine is not caused by the weather....it is caused by man refusing to share his abundance with those in need.
Today, we are a global village, so what happens on one side of the world that causes want, could easily be offset by an abundance in another part. But, we won't share....why? It has no economic advantage and it might cost us something.We as a race are to blame for all the tragedy. We could help, but we won't.
So Jesus was a liar? Interesting! If you believe in the trinity you have no problem in believing the thief was with god that day, but you really need to take that up with Christians. There is a healthy debate going on in the "Was Jesus God" thread.
Well that is convenient isn't it? As long as you don't keep looking it isn't adultery? If only Jesus had made it more clear! As for lusting after your own wife, I think you know I meant there would be no wives if men didn't look lustfully at women!
Yeah right, when has anyone been in a position to give up everything? I'm not talking giving up chocolates here, pretty sure that is not what the bible was talking about either!
Did I say anything to the contrary? I think you'll find Christians will say that the forgiveness of sins makes it imperative to live a "righteous" life.
So you are assured of salvation? You could never lose it? Just asking, not sure what the Watchtower teaches on "assured" salvation.
Me.
These are a few different species of ducks....one can only marvel at their artistic designs and color schemes.
Who could possibly think that these just evolved and turned out like this through the process of gene mutations and adaptation?
Assortative mating. Look it up.
I wouldn't say it feels "wrong" when somebody you love dies, it is painful for sure, but death is just a part of the circle of life. As for the only thing that mitigates is "the hope of seeing them again", not so, I've already said you take the memories of that person, the good times you shared on life's journey. I am resigned to my mortality, it is just a fact. I still enjoy life, it engages me, and it would still engage you if you came across something that positively falsified your religious beliefs today. Life goes on, regardless of what you believe.
No, I'm missing nothing, I understand you think the "Creator" made us, so has utter and complete control over everything; it can destroy us if it becomes annoyed by what we do or say. According to the bible it has done just that on many occasions in the past. Your version of the deity sounds like an old school dictator, Stalin on speed, though I suppose you got that from the odious character portrayed in the OT. That capricious old bully is what is waiting for us on the other side of the grave? Damn sorry outlook for humanity then; don't get too comfortable in your "new world" btw, the deity may well decide he is unhappy with humanity again and wipe them out. He does that, and that is his right of course in your world? Annihilation is beginning to sound appealing!
No, there was the genocide of the Canaanites wasn't there? God, in his mercy, commanded that men, women, children, and even the animals be slaughtered. What a happy scene, but there again, it is god's prerogative to take life isn't it? Even if he commands other human beings to do the slaughtering on his behalf.
Yes it's our fault, it is always our fault. Let's not forget the evil Christendom, from which your organisation emerged either right? Change the record Deeje!If humans had never unleashed a knowledge of evil, then violence would never have invaded human thinking. Once it was made known and sin entered human consciousness, they have been perpetrating violent acts towards one another ever since. I guess that was one of the things that drew me to JW's.....they will not take up weapons to kill or harm anyone for any reason. (Matthew 5:43-44) There are no divinely sanctioned wars in the Christian era. Church sanctioned? Yes.....but that is a whole other issue..
Alternative medicine? I hope you don't mean quackery like homeopathy? Dear me Deeje, you go from bad to worse!
Oh, so you are allow people ignorance when it comes to "moderation" in diet, but heaven help them if they get the god question wrong eh?How many people actually know what "moderation" means?
Do you know how fresh those fruits and vegetables are? As soon as vegetables and fruit are harvested, they begin to lose vitamin content (if they had any to begin with). Some of the stuff you buy as "fresh" produce in supermarkets can be years old, kept in cold storage. There is no such thing as 'fresh food' unless you grow it yourself and have access to natural fertilizers and unpolluted water. Food that is commercially grown is contaminated with artificial chemical fertilizers and bug sprays that we end up ingesting. Even some of the genetically modified seeds are contaminated with pesticides.
Processed foods are dead foods. If "you are what you eat".....heaven help us all.
Sure, and I read a different interpretation if I go to a Christian apologist. For someone who is not supposed to be the author of confusion, it seems that there is a lot of confusion about what "god's word" means! Seriously Deeje, I don't care, that is an argument for believers. I don't feel motivated to learn ancient Greek or Aramaic to find out!No Jesus was not a liar. If you read that verse in Greek, you will not see any punctuation because there was none in the Greek language.....there were no capital letters either. All were inserted by translators.
Luke 23:43:
"καὶ And εἶπεν he said αὐτῷ to him ᾿Αμήν Amen σοι to you λέγω,I am saying σήμερον today μετ’with ἐμοῦ me ἔσῃ you will be ἐν in τῷ the παραδείσῳ paradise."
In the ESV it is rendered this way....
"And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
You will be hard pressed to find a translation that does not put a comma after the word "you". But if you put the comma after the word "today" the verse takes on a whole different meaning.
"Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise."
"G. M. Lamsa, in the publication Gospel Light—Comments on the Teachings of Jesus From Aramaic and Unchanged Eastern Customs, pp. 303-304, says about the use of “today” at Lu 23:43: “The emphasis in this text is on the word ‘today’ and should read, ‘Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise.’ The promise was made on that day and it was to be fulfilled later. This is a characteristic of Oriental speech implying that the promise was made on a certain day and would surely be kept.” Therefore, the Greek phrase at Lu 23:43 may reflect a Semitic way of expressing emphasis. The Hebrew Scriptures provide numerous examples of the idiomatic usage of “today” in solemn expressions, such as promises and commands. (Deut 4:26; 6:6; 7:11; 8:1, 19; 30:15; Zech 9:12) The evidence presented above suggests that Jesus used the word “today” to call attention, not to the time of the criminal’s being in Paradise, but to the time at which the promise was being made."
Since Jesus did not go to heaven for 40 days, and an expert on the Aramaic language confirms that it was indeed a Jewish idiom to make such a promise, I believe that the second rendering is correct. This was a promise made to the man that day. Since I have no belief in an immortal soul or the trinity, I believe Jesus was promising the thief a resurrection back to life in the new world to come....just like every other "righteous or unrighteous" person who sleeps in death. (2 Peter 3:13; John 5:28-29)
Been there, done that.
I wasn't expecting you to approve of free love you know, but what you wrote is missing the point I was making. The biblical standards are impossible to follow, even your natural biological urges count against you.
The best of your ability? Oh no, you must live your life according to god's rules or he'll crush you like a bug madam. "To the best of my ability" sounds extremely vague and woolly. So you could lose your salvation you reckon? You are really not selling this thing to me Deeje, a despotic dictator who dangles the carrot of salvation, only to snatch it away if I succumb to temptation? What exactly is the "good news" in your religious message?I have a promise from God through his son that if I am doing the will of God first in my life, to the best of my ability, then my salvation is assured. It has nothing to do with wearing a label because we are judged individually ....not just collectively.
I could easily lose my salvation if I succumbed to the temptations placed before us by God's adversary. There is no spiritual insurance policy that overrides my personal conduct. We have to prove ourselves faithful to the death if necessary.The first Christian martyrs did, so must we.
Have you been seeing the news of what parents have been doing to their children?
Do you have a verse banning multistory buildings? What does God think of skyscrapers?
How was a multistory building going to harm God in any legitimate way?
But it HAS been altered, deleted, etc, so no, God doesn't do anything to "preserve" anything.
The part where you own someone is pretty much the same.
It's meant as an achievement but I consider it a failing.
"into a way they liked better...."
In all honesty, since you have repeatedly admitted you are not allowed nor do you have the capacity to read anything scholarly, what "study" have you done, exactly?
God's spirit showed me the problems of the bible. He didn't send me to your denomination, though. Why would that be?
Not if you value facts.
Then why bother with us at all? Just stock His little terrarium with pet rocks, like John the Baptist said.
Do you believe you have the right to kill your children if they disobey? If not, why not? After all, it's biblical ...
I expect my God to not be a snowflake too fragile to handle an adult conversation.
Isn't the reason you left "Christendom" for "JW" being you were impressed by the latter?
Some people are easily impressed. My dogs think the ability to open doors is magical.
Now if only it will last the entire century.
So we can see where the kid inherited his sense of irresponsibility, then.
Would you come to this conclusion if you lived in Gaza or some other war-torn hellhole?
Maybe had his father not neglected to raise the little jerk ...
So, God doesn't save us at all. We have to save ourselves because God is too busy to go looking for us, making the Good Shepherd parable an outright lie. Got it.
So Jesus' message doesn't stand up on its own merits and he has to resort to bait and switch to get butts in the pews. Got it.
Again, let me drain you of your blood and replace it with normal saline. Curious how long you'll last?
Many of which are no longer instantly fatal, thanks to the science you poo-poo so much.
I was suicidal after the death of my grandfather, but also happy he could finally stop suffering from his ill health. He died happy and that's fine with me.
Yeah, I don't see the issue either. The great thing about it is whether an afterlife exists or not, you're not going to care at the moment.
Attachment to petty things in life.
"We" have. "You" have not.
Do you live in a place where this attitude would be understandable? Syria? Gaza? Anywhere but where you actually live? Isn't it a bit of a slap in the face of God to be "impressed" by Him all the time and then constantly whine about how awful one's life is?
There were only TWO people on the planet and things got screwed up. Explain THAT.
I don't know if he's a liar or has short term memory loss, as he's also the kind of person to say calling someone a "fool" will land them in hell after calling some religious leaders foolish ...
The Legend of Tithonus and Eos
I enjoyed your handsome collection of duck photos. Thanks.
If you think that then what can I say? Nothing will open a closed mind.
It does until it doesn't. We both share this belief, just from two different perspectives.
It is your casual acceptance of the way the deity supposedly has complete ownership of our lives; if parents said to a child "we made you, therefore we have every right to kill you if you displease us" you would call them psychotic monsters. A deity says it and you worship it.Wow, you really do have issues, don't you?There is no 'capricious bully waiting on the other side of the grave'....that is Christendom's version of God. The Jews never entertained such a belief. The highest penalty under God's law for the worst of crimes was death. There is no immortal soul that flits off to some spiritual realm at death, to await the big judgment and sentence of eternal flames. You will not find that concept in the Bible even though some "Christians" have misinterpreted scripture to say so.
The dead "sleep".....and those whom God considers worthy, will be resurrected back to this mortal life to live the way they were created to....in paradise, with no aging, sickness or death. (Revelation 21:2-4)....that includes both "righteous and unrighteous". (John 5:28-29) The incorrigibly wicked will never wake up. Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life. There never was a "heaven or hell" scenario in the Bible.....so the outlook for obedient mankind is actually wonderful...in spite of your gloom and doom scenario.
Then why not cut to the chase rather than go through millennia with satan in charge? If that's how its going to pan out I'll wait until the 1000 years reign begins , when I can see more evidence for the existence of god. I cant lose!
