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Just to stir the pudding...

jonathan180iq

jonathan180iq

Well-Known Member
Complicated problems require complicated solutions.

Attempting to justify one-size-fits all arguments, when they're obviously flawed, is about as productive as getting into an emotional shouting match over a topic you were totally ignorant of three weeks ago.
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
If parents do not want their children separated from them then don't enter the country illegally. Simple No?
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
esmith said:
If parents do not want their children separated from them then don't enter the country illegally. Simple No?
Click to expand...
So, you feel that children should be punished as they are being even if it's a matter of parent's making a bad decision?

Also, aren't you even aware that ICE believes that about half of all coming in from Latin America probably qualify for refugee status? Also, many of these people are so desperate that they feel that seeking asylum is such a must that they want to get in one way or the other.

Many Americans fled Europe to come here as refugees and just took the land and subjugated the indigenous, so aren't you aware of that? Aren't you aware that even after that we basically stole around 2/3 of land and took control of the people in the region that was "Mexico"? Aren't you aware that we took the Philippines, part of Cuba, and some other islands during the Spanish-American War that we started?

We can't have open borders, no doubt, but we can and should help those in need who are trying to save their lives and those of their children with at least temporary refugee status.
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
metis said:
So, you feel that children should be punished as they are being even if it's a matter of parent's making a bad decision?

Also, aren't you even aware that ICE believes that about half of all coming in from Latin America probably qualify for refugee status? Also, many of these people are so desperate that they feel that seeking asylum is such a must that they want to get in one way or the other.

Many Americans fled Europe to come here as refugees and just took the land and subjugated the indigenous, so aren't you aware of that? Aren't you aware that even after that we basically stole around 2/3 of land and took control of the people in the region that was "Mexico"? Aren't you aware that we took the Philippines, part of Cuba, and some other islands during the Spanish-American War that we started?

We can't have open borders, no doubt, but we can and should help those in need who are trying to save their lives and those of their children with at least temporary refugee status.
Click to expand...
That is correct; parents reap what they sow.
I could care less what happened over 300 years ago.
Tough Titty.
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
Revoltingest said:
Where have you been these last few weeks?
Letting real life dominate you....again!
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Was dry camping out in the desert (no AC) and ATV riding in the desert and up into the mountains last week and honey-do's the past few weeks (causing me to crash and burn after coming in).
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
esmith said:
That is correct; parents reap what they sow.
I could care less what happened over 300 years ago.
Tough Titty.
Click to expand...
What "compassion", esmith.

Parents in half the cases, according to ICE, have been fleeing for their lives, risking everything in many cases, but you don't give a rat's rump what happens to them. And you took similar "compassionate" measures wanting people to be stripped of their government-provided health insurance (ACA) without replacement (at least at first-- you changed only later).

We will never agree, esmith, on this and many other things because we live in different worlds. Your basic lack of compassion for the unfortunate I find appalling, and that's the nice word for it. And Trump is very much the same with his basic lack of empathy and with his self-centeredness. No wonder you admire him so much. Needless to say, I pity anyone who would rely on you for help, esmith, including even little children. IMO, it's hard to imagine you stooping any lower than this.


Because I'm aware that my response above violates RF rules, I will withdraw from this with you as it's simply too hard for me to keep my composure. Goodbye.
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
metis said:
What "compassion", esmith.

Parents in half the cases, according to ICE, have been fleeing for their lives, risking everything in many cases, but you don't give a rat's rump what happens to them. And you took similar "compassionate" measures wanting people to be stripped of their government-provided health insurance (ACA) without replacement (at least at first-- you changed only later).

We will never agree, esmith, on this and many other things because we live in different worlds. Your basic lack of compassion for the unfortunate I find appalling, and that's the nice word for it. And Trump is very much the same with his basic lack of empathy and with his self-centeredness. No wonder you admire him so much. Needless to say, I pity anyone who would rely on you for help, esmith, including even little children. IMO, it's hard to imagine you stooping any lower than this.


Because I'm aware that my response above violates RF rules, I will withdraw from this with you as it's simply too hard for me to keep my composure. Goodbye.
Click to expand...
They name streets after me.:D
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
esmith said:
Yes. What's your point?
Click to expand...
The 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees was ratified - i.e. made binding law - by the US in 1968. It stipulates that it's illegal for the government to punish refugees for entering the country illegally or to deport refugees.

Edit: do you think this law should be obeyed?
 
esmith

esmith

Veteran Member
9-10ths_Penguin said:
The 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees was ratified - i.e. made binding law - by the US in 1968. It stipulates that it's illegal for the government to punish refugees for entering the country illegally or to deport refugees.

Edit: do you think this law should be obeyed?
Click to expand...
I do not see those illegally entering the U.S. as "refugees".
And no I could care less what you consider as refugees.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
esmith said:
I do not see those illegally entering the U.S. as "refugees".
Click to expand...
The law often does. A refugee doesn't stop being a refugee just because they entered illegally or overstayed their visa.

And no I could care less what you consider as refugees.
Click to expand...
They're not all refugees, but many are.

So I guess the answer is no: you don't care about obeying the law. Not when it suits you, anyhow.
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
Did TIME actually claim the girl was separated, or....?
Click to expand...

Time at first claimed the child was separated from the mother. Time later "corrected" the "error" only after being exposed for being crap at research. However the damage had been done already in an era of social media, clickbait and pandering to emotions. It has become a tactic in my mind. Make an article with misinformation to blow up a topic only to retract parts when exposed for false reporting. /repeat

Read the bottom.
How a Photographer at the U.S.-Mexico Border Made the Image America Could Not Ignore
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
Shad said:
Time at first claimed the child was separated from the mother. Time later "corrected" the "error" only after being exposed for being crap at research. However the damage had been done already in an era of social media, clickbait and pandering to emotions. It has become a tactic in my mind. Make an article with misinformation to blow up a topic only to retract parts when exposed for false reporting. /repeat

Read the bottom.
How a Photographer at the U.S.-Mexico Border Made the Image America Could Not Ignore
Click to expand...

TIME never actually claimed they were separated. The original article stated erroneously, that the photographer "watched agents carry away the screaming girl.”

But, it also accurately quotes the photographer as saying, “As soon as it was over, they were put into a van."


https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/06/22/time-forced-to-issue-correction-the-girl-was-not-carried-away-screaming/amp/


@Revoltingest Definitely misinformation on both sides.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
ref·u·gee
ˌrefyo͝oˈjē/
noun
  1. a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
    "tens of thousands of refugees fled their homes"
    synonyms: émigré, fugitive, exile, displaced person, asylum seeker;
    boat people
 
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