djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
This isn't fun anymore without JW's!
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JW's Preach A Different Gospel
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
No fun a'tall! I miss Pegg. We had some great discussions, and I learned a lot.Mountain_Climber
Active Member
They are not supposed to even be participating in such sites as this according to their GB.
I figured that if the going got rough for them they would remember that.
They are strongly warned concerning Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
That to them means that when anyone begins to outdo their logic it is that they have encountered Satan or Satan's soldiers. They thus recoil for fear of being misled.
Fear of man lays a snare. Proverbs 29:25 Deuteronomy 1:17 Psalms 91:1
I remember hearing a warning from the governing body about internet associations when I was a Jehovah's Witness. (that was five or more years ago). When I left for reasons spawned in my own mind I still refused to look on the internet for a long while. The reason was because I did not want the reason for my revelation to be anyone other than Jehovah.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
If only they would see their error. Their org. leaders are false prophets. They themselves admit that they not only preach a different gospel, they admit they add to it---and are joyful because of it.
w67 12/15 p. 753 What Now Distinguishes the Good News to Be Preached ***
What vital thing has now been added to the good news of the kingdom of God that Jesus Christ and his zealous apostles used to preach nineteen hundred years ago? This, namely, the birth of God’s Messianic kingdom in the heavens at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914. …What a joy-inspiring addition or enlargement to the good news now to be preached!
They have added to the good news! It's hard to understand how a rational person can not understand that this is wrong! How can anyone think it's a "joyful-inspiration" to add to God's word?
I'm stunned by this quote.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I believe I'm changing my position on JWs cultness.
First cult is not a Biblical concept. What is Biblical is
Matthew 23:13, 15-28 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [15] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. [16] “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.' [17] You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? [18] You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.' [19] You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? [20] Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. [21] And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. [22] And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. [23] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices---mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law---justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. [24] You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. [25] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. [26] Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. [27] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. [28] In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
This encompasses a lot of what today is known as cults.
I've long maintained that beliefs create the culture around them. Belief only salvation creates altar calls, sinners prayers, and counseling rooms. Infant baptism creates godparents, baptism certificates, and a strong identity of being catholic. The belief of being unique and special creates isolationism, a superior complex, and often times a hierarchy. But it takes more than the belief of being unique and special, the Jews actually were unique and special. That alone did not cause the abuses listed in Matthew 23. I believe it takes believing one is the keeper of God's words/understanding and not obeying Jesus's command to be a servant. This I believe kicks off the lust for power. God is the only keeper of His truths. When we defer to His teachings and recognize that others can find it on their own as well, we show humility before God as God. When we make ourselves to be a mediator between God and men, then we are claiming to have some of God's authority. Whenever a group sees themselves as unique and special, a keeper of God's truth, and an authority in & of themselves instead of a servant under God equally as everyone else, then Matthew 23ism has a fertile ground from which to emerge, in its ugliest forms. JWs governing body, in my understanding, claim to be such a keeper. They believe they are unique and special, and despite their servant name, they behave as an authority. There are many good qualities in JWs, but as long as those factors are there, there will always be abuses, akin to Matthew 23. They will always have to put out fires. They haven't yet cleaned the inside of the cup. The good aspects lauded as redeeming virtues will always be on the fringe, but the heart of their organization is corrupt as long as they maintain this position.
First cult is not a Biblical concept. What is Biblical is
Matthew 23:13, 15-28 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. [15] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. [16] “Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gold of the temple is bound by that oath.' [17] You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? [18] You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but anyone who swears by the gift on the altar is bound by that oath.' [19] You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? [20] Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. [21] And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. [22] And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. [23] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices---mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law---justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. [24] You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. [25] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. [26] Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. [27] “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. [28] In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
This encompasses a lot of what today is known as cults.
I've long maintained that beliefs create the culture around them. Belief only salvation creates altar calls, sinners prayers, and counseling rooms. Infant baptism creates godparents, baptism certificates, and a strong identity of being catholic. The belief of being unique and special creates isolationism, a superior complex, and often times a hierarchy. But it takes more than the belief of being unique and special, the Jews actually were unique and special. That alone did not cause the abuses listed in Matthew 23. I believe it takes believing one is the keeper of God's words/understanding and not obeying Jesus's command to be a servant. This I believe kicks off the lust for power. God is the only keeper of His truths. When we defer to His teachings and recognize that others can find it on their own as well, we show humility before God as God. When we make ourselves to be a mediator between God and men, then we are claiming to have some of God's authority. Whenever a group sees themselves as unique and special, a keeper of God's truth, and an authority in & of themselves instead of a servant under God equally as everyone else, then Matthew 23ism has a fertile ground from which to emerge, in its ugliest forms. JWs governing body, in my understanding, claim to be such a keeper. They believe they are unique and special, and despite their servant name, they behave as an authority. There are many good qualities in JWs, but as long as those factors are there, there will always be abuses, akin to Matthew 23. They will always have to put out fires. They haven't yet cleaned the inside of the cup. The good aspects lauded as redeeming virtues will always be on the fringe, but the heart of their organization is corrupt as long as they maintain this position.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I beleive it is a little too much to expect a JW to correctly interpret scripture. I believe in most cases the person is just parroting a teaching and not trying to see what is really there.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
I think the same can be said of many religious groups. To get to the TRUTH, one must be willing to let the Holy Spirit teach him/her, rather than imposing his/her beliefs on the Holy Spirit. Too many of us search the Scriptures to validate what we already believe. It's a difficult habit to break. The best of us are guilty of it. This is why we must pray fervently, asking God to help us cleanse our minds and hearts of prior false teachings, and open them to God's truth.
Grandliseur
Well-Known Member
Well, while I agree with the WT on some points, this is not one of them.
Example: 1. if I give a person all my car keys, how many keys do I have left? None! Not a single one.
Here we read: " Matt 28:18 And Jesus coming up spoke to them, saying, All power has been given me in heaven and upon earth. "
If Jesus was given all power (DARBY), all authority (ASV) in heaven and on earth right after his resurrection, he could receive no more than ALL, for that is all that was, is - available. Thus Jesus received royal authority right after his resurrection. This point Rev 3:21 also makes, pay attention to the verb tense!
(Rev 3:21: 21 He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne. )
E.2:
If I come to a handicapped person of the congregation and say, "I have come to take you to the meeting! Let me help you downstairs into my car." If when we come downstairs - there is no car, only one of of two possibilities exist! Either I am insane or the car has been removed by someone (police, thief, etc).
In Col 1 this is said:
" 12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; "
If then God has translated us into the kingdom of the Son - this being in the first century (Paul is writing), either God is insane and Christ has no kingdom, or Christ has a kingdom that his disciples were entered into, and if he has a kingdom, obviously, he then would have to be king.
Thus the teaching that Christ became king in 1914 is not scriptural.
Besides, looking at the world today, can one really say with a straight face that the gentile times are over! No, one cannot say that. It is obviously not true. Since this teaching is attached to the teaching that Babylon the Great fell in 1918, one can also clearly see by looking at Babylon the Great, that she is doing just fine and is in good health - at the moment.
Their teaching is wrong and unscriptural.That is the only conclusion one can reach, logically, and without bias. The only bias being the one of our reality viewed in scriptural light.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Excellent Points!!
All one need do is read the Society's early history to know without a doubt that the organization is a false religion.
The Watchtower today claims that Jesus came in 1914 and began to inspect Christendom. According to Watchtower, his inspection was based on true teaching, at the proper time (Matthew 24:45-47). At the end of Jesus' inspection in 1919, God chose the Society to be God's visible organization on earth based on their "true teaching at the proper time." All other churches failed inspection.
The problem with that is Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Society, taught that Jesus came in 1874 not 1914. He maintained this so called "proper teaching" until his death in 1916. In other words, he proclaimed this lie throughout the time Jesus was inspecting Christendom. He also claimed to be God's sole channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. Watchtower today denies that Russell was the F&D Slave, but their history shows that he claimed to be.
After Russel died, Rutherford became President. He carried the same lie forward throughout his lifetime. He taught that Jesus came in 1874. Then in 1916, he began a worldwide campaign called "Millions living Will Never Die." He later wrote a book with this title. But guess what? Millions did die. This so called "true teaching," which Jesus' inspection was based on went on from 1914-1919, all the while Jesus was inspecting Christendom.
The WTS doesn't seem to grasp the significance of all this. Either that or they completely ignore it, hoping no one will notice.
Watchtower's defense is that it has admitted its mistakes, therefore, showing humility. That seems to be their way of saying it didn't matter that the Society was perpetrating a lie during Jesus' inspection back then (1914-1919) because they showed humility 60 + years later.
The problem with this is that Jesus' inspection that supposedly took place 1914-1919 looked at the teachings of Christendom down till' 1919 (See God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached, pp 350-355). The same criterion was used by Jesus to reject all other churches.
It was not until 1943 that the WTS formally changed its teaching and said Jesus didn't come in 1874. Instead, they now maintain he came in 1914. So for 60+ years, the Society carried this lie, and others forward.
The WTS collapses under its own history. Unless a person willfully ignores the facts found in Watchtower's own official history book(Proclaimer's of God's Kingdom), they cannot truthfully say that Watchtower is God's sole channel of communication. They cannot honestly say that they are the faithful and discreet slave they claim to be. The only conclusion they can make is that they are nothing more than false prophets!
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e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I take it you've run across a few. Lol.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I agree that it is possible for the WT to get something right on occasion but the tendency towards error is greater than in most other religious groups in my opinion.
Well said. If He had come back I seriously doubt we would have missed it.
Pegg, You are OK. Have a great day.Nah, not at all... water off a ducks back., It take a lot more to insult me... im pretty thick generally
Pegg,
Perhaps you have not looked up the word Parousia in a Greek dictionary, or looked it up in a concordance. The first definition of Parousia is Comming, the second is Presence. So it is the responsibility of the translator to use the correct word, because, just like in all languages, words can have a variety of correct meanings, but only one of them actually agrees with the context, where it is used.
In Greek times, the word Parousia, meant the coming to visit of a high official, and the time that he would spend with the people. There MUST be a coming before there can be a presence!!! The term Parousia actually means, a walking beside, which cannot be until after the coming.
JW's have decided to translate Parousia as Presence in several places where the word coming, would fit the context better.
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I think mormons can compete for that title.
"e.r.m.",
It is easy to make assertions, but it is much harder to provide proof, when someone asks you to show proof from the only source of proof for all Bible doctrine.
When I first heard some of the teaching of Witnesses, I thought they were crazy, because they seemed to be teaching from some other book, and not the Bible. One person I loved very much was an Aunt of mine, who was one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I did not want her to be mislead by false teachers, so I started to study the Bible diligently, and deeply. The only way to really understand the Bible is to study it topically, that is pick a topic, or doctrine, then look up all scripture that even slightly had to do with the subject. I did this on several topics, and instead of proving what she believed wrong, I proved to myself that what she believed was correct. I just could not believe that the whole world was wrong, in their beliefs, but if you stop to think about it, is that not the way with most things, the majority actually does not know what is correct on almost all things.
Before making too many assertions that may put you as an enemy, actually of God, it would be wise to look at any one teaching of that JW's and prove to yourself, what the Bible SAYS, instead of what people SAY it SAYS.
I have learned over 50 years that Chtistendom today, is not the Christianity of the first century. Through the process of Syncretism, over almost 2,000 years, the teachings of all the major religions are far from what was taught by The Apostles in the first century. The fact is we were warned, by the Bible itself, that this would take place, Acts 20:28-30, 2Thes 2:3-13, 2Tim 4:2-5, 1Pet 2:22Pet 2:1-3, 3:15-18, Matt 7:21-23, Luke 13:23,24, John 16:1-4, really consider what John is saying here, that people who thought they were in God's favor, would actually kill God's true disciples, actually believing that they were doing a service to God.
Remember, the Bible says that people of all nations would hate true Christians, Matt 12:22, 24:9. Remember, and think about these next verses, Luke 6:22,23, then 24-26. Very telling!!!
Does the Bible ever say that if a person's beliefs are hated it means the person himself is hated?
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
I like your approach. I disagree with your conclusions. I'll try to comment more on it later. I'm out of time.