JW's Preach A Different Gospel

[djhwoodwerks]

I doubt you were 'scorned' for not having literature with you.

*** w57 7/1 p. 415 Questions From Readers ***
“Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the Scripture Studies aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years—if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness. On the other hand, if he had merely read the Scripture Studies with their references, and not read a page of the Bible, as such, he would be in the light at the end of the two years, because he would have the light of the Scriptures.”

 

[savethedreams]

I went to a JW meeting 2 Sundays ago. There was a speaker that talked for a while then we read from a WT magazine, NOT ONCE was the Bible opened or used!

Wow times have changed. JW are really dependent on GB.

 

[katiemygirl]

Katie said "Receive Jesus as Lord and Savior is not the gospel. It is a response to the gospel.

Unless you heard the gospel preached, you would not have known to receive Lord as Savior.

The gospel is the good news that Jesus died, was buried and raised from the dead, and because of His sacrifice you, too, can live forever.

The gospel saves!

1 Cor. 15:2
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Romans 16:1
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

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Please explain.

I believe I would not have received Jesus as Lord and Savior if I hadn't known a little of what is in the Bible but at the time I was not thinking of the gospel as Paul preached it. Mainly it was the gospel as Jesus preached it and Paul is not far off from that. I had just finished reading John 3 the discourse with Nicodemus and realizing that there is a Spirit and that Jesus therefore could be raised from the dead. This brought to remembrance an early encounter I had with God re-inforcing the concept of a Spirit. It was that and a Biblical knowledge that God is good that allowed me to ask Him to be my Lord and Savior. I did not have a full understanding of the gospel of Jesus until later.

I beleive that is nice but it is not what saved me. It is a good gospel so maybe some get saved by it. What is your testimony. How did you get saved?

I beleive it does but that it doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes it only gets in the way of reaching a person.

Good post Muffled. Thank you for your testimony.

For me, and I suspect for you as well, I always knew Jesus died on the cross, was buried and God raised Him to life. But I never understood it as a personal thing. Remember in Acts 2 when Peter told the Jews they had crucified Jesus? Their response was that they were pierced to the heart. That is exactly how I felt when I was convicted of my sins and converted.

What never really clicked in my head is what a terrible sinner I was, and that it was for ME personally that Jesus suffered such a horrible and painful death on the cross.

I won't ever forget the moment it hit me. We had been sitting in on a Bible study we'd been invited to join. We were into the sixth week and were reading Galatians 5. We got to the part about sins of the flesh, and that's when I realized I was one of those sinners. I believe that was the moment the Holy Spirit chose to pierce my heart and convict me of my sins.

That's when I felt the awful feeling that Jesus suffered and died for me. I felt so awful about that. It was in that moment I determined to commit my life to Him.

 

[katiemygirl]

I went to a JW meeting 2 Sundays ago. There was a speaker that talked for a while then we read from a WT magazine, NOT ONCE was the Bible opened or used!

Wow! You actually went to one of their meetings? Well, I guess that's a good way to find out the truth of what goes on.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Wow! You actually went to one of their meetings? Well, I guess that's a good way to find out the truth of what goes on.

Yes I did, I went. My friend started making excuses for not coming to my house, so I figured I'd go to a meeting or two so he wouldn't stop coming. The people were very nice and welcoming. But the bible was not used at all. The study for that day was read out of the WT and people were asked to answer the question at the end. 8 people out of 10 read word for word what was written in the study. The other two commented something I didn't understand the relevance to. It wasn't a bible oriented service, it was WT oriented.

 

[katiemygirl]

Yes I did, I went. My friend started making excuses for not coming to my house, so I figured I'd go to a meeting or two so he wouldn't stop coming. The people were very nice and welcoming. But the bible was not used at all. The study for that day was read out of the WT and people were asked to answer the question at the end. 8 people out of 10 read word for word what was written in the study. The other two commented something I didn't understand the relevance to. It wasn't a bible oriented service, it was WT oriented.

Was this meeting for the purpose of Bible Study or was it a type of worship service? Was it a Sunday or weekday?

It was good for your friend to see your willingness and open mindedness.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Was this meeting for the purpose of Bible Study or was it a type of worship service? Was it a Sunday or weekday?

It was good for your friend to see your willingness and open mindedness.

There was no worship. They sang 2 songs that were relevant to what they were teaching, they had a speaker from another kingdom hall that talked for a half hour or so then went thru and read the WT study for the day. That was it, no Bible reading, nothing from the Bible.

 

[Shak34]

There was no worship. They sang 2 songs that were relevant to what they were teaching, they had a speaker from another kingdom hall that talked for a half hour or so then went thru and read the WT study for the day. That was it, no Bible reading, nothing from the Bible.

Are you sure you were there for both parts? Last time I went was about two years ago and there wasn't any change, other they shortened the length of meetings. Three songs (opening, middle, and end), a talk, and the watchtower section. So that would be song, talk, song, watchtower section, song. During the talks scriptures are always read that relate to the talk, and the congregation is asked to open their bibles up to that scripture. If this set up of Sunday meetings has changed I would appreciate a current witnesses letting me know, thanks. I don't know what is considered worship in other types of Christian religions but for witnesses that would be probably be considered worship.

 

[averageJOE]

Are you sure you were there for both parts? Last time I went was about two years ago and there wasn't any change, other they shortened the length of meetings. Three songs (opening, middle, and end), a talk, and the watchtower section. So that would be song, talk, song, watchtower section, song. During the talks scriptures are always read that relate to the talk, and the congregation is asked to open their bibles up to that scripture. If this set up of Sunday meetings has changed I would appreciate a current witnesses letting me know, thanks. I don't know what is considered worship in other types of Christian religions but for witnesses that would be probably be considered worship.

That's the usual format. But don't they, on some days, break off into smaller studies before the WT section? Where others, like children, give talks?

 

[katiemygirl]

Are you sure you were there for both parts? Last time I went was about two years ago and there wasn't any change, other they shortened the length of meetings. Three songs (opening, middle, and end), a talk, and the watchtower section. So that would be song, talk, song, watchtower section, song. During the talks scriptures are always read that relate to the talk, and the congregation is asked to open their bibles up to that scripture. If this set up of Sunday meetings has changed I would appreciate a current witnesses letting me know, thanks. I don't know what is considered worship in other types of Christian religions but for witnesses that would be probably be considered worship.

Worship in the New Testament church consisted of praying, singing praises, breaking of bread (communion), preaching/teaching, and giving.

 

[Shak34]

Worship in the New Testament church consisted of praying, singing praises, breaking of bread (communion), preaching/teaching, and giving.

What is the giving part? I have been to a few Sunday services at a couple of churches and they didn't do communion. Is this suppose to be an every Sunday occurrence?

 

[Shak34]

That's the usual format. But don't they, on some days, break off into smaller studies before the WT section? Where others, like children, give talks?

I'm pretty sure that is usually the midweek or end of week meeting, when I was younger it was on Friday. I always hated being assigned a part in the theocratic ministry school. for me it was torture.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

Are you sure you were there for both parts? Last time I went was about two years ago and there wasn't any change, other they shortened the length of meetings. Three songs (opening, middle, and end), a talk, and the watchtower section. So that would be song, talk, song, watchtower section, song. During the talks scriptures are always read that relate to the talk, and the congregation is asked to open their bibles up to that scripture. If this set up of Sunday meetings has changed I would appreciate a current witnesses letting me know, thanks. I don't know what is considered worship in other types of Christian religions but for witnesses that would be probably be considered worship.

It was a Sunday. I got there at 9:40, the meeting/service started at 10. They sang a song, the guy that was leading that day stood up said a little about traveling speakers. He told a little about the speaker for that day. The speaker got up and talked for about for about 45 minutes. They sang another song, and after the song we opened the WT to the study for the day and the leader, I don't know what else to call him, related the song to the study. There was a different guy that read sections of the study and the first guy commented on it then asked the people questions about what was read. That went on until it was time to go at 12. I guess I can't truly say there was no worship since that was my first visit. Like you said, they may consider that worship as well.

 

[katiemygirl]

What is the giving part? I have been to a few Sunday services at a couple of churches and they didn't do communion. Is this suppose to be an every Sunday occurrence?

We have pretty good examples of the early church meeting on the first day of the week to share communion and share (give) as they had prospered in Acts 20:7 and 1 Cor. 16:1-2.

I would think it strange for a church to take a collection but not share communion.

I Corinthians 16:1-2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Acts 20:
7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

 

[Muffled]

Good post Muffled. Thank you for your testimony.

For me, and I suspect for you as well, I always knew Jesus died on the cross, was buried and God raised Him to life. But I never understood it as a personal thing. Remember in Acts 2 when Peter told the Jews they had crucified Jesus? Their response was that they were pierced to the heart. That is exactly how I felt when I was convicted of my sins and converted.

What never really clicked in my head is what a terrible sinner I was, and that it was for ME personally that Jesus suffered such a horrible and painful death on the cross.

I won't ever forget the moment it hit me. We had been sitting in on a Bible study we'd been invited to join. We were into the sixth week and were reading Galatians 5. We got to the part about sins of the flesh, and that's when I realized I was one of those sinners. I believe that was the moment the Holy Spirit chose to pierce my heart and convict me of my sins.

That's when I felt the awful feeling that Jesus suffered and died for me. I felt so awful about that. It was in that moment I determined to commit my life to Him.

I may have heard it sometime in my high school years but it made no impression on me. I may have heard it later in my twenties at a an evagelistic Baptist church but it was not enough for me receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

I believe it was repentance. It is part of the Gospel of Jesus.

I had God help me in early years (age 13) but I had turned away from God because of the evil in the world. However the possibility of the flesh causing me to sin was enough for me to call upon God for a temporal salvation (one time). He wouldn't answer so I put my faith in Him to handle the situation anyway. I made it through and then He had sometning to say to me. He asked me if I wanted to be part of the probem (of evil in the world) or part of the solution.
It was at this point I turned back to God (repentance) but only my heart was there and not yet my life. I think I still thought I could handle most of my problems.

For me I had to see that I wasn't really able to handle even the smallest problems and that I needed a Savior from sin all the time. Coupled with a newfound sense of being able to have The Spirit with me all the time made the decision all the more attractive.

 

[katiemygirl]

="Muffled, post: 4384112, member: 7502"]I may have heard it sometime in my high school years but it made no impression on me. I may have heard it later in my twenties at a an evagelistic Baptist church but it was not enough for me receive Jesus as Lord and Savior.

Same with me. Heard throughout my growing up years, but it didn't convict me at that point in time. We are all different, and I believe it is the Holy Spirit who opens our hearts in His time frame.

I believe it was repentance. It is part of the Gospel of Jesus.

I think it's a response to the whole gospel.

I had God help me in early years (age 13) but I had turned away from God because of the evil in the world. However the possibility of the flesh causing me to sin was enough for me to call upon God for a temporal salvation (one time). He wouldn't answer so I put my faith in Him to handle the situation anyway. I made it through and then He had sometning to say to me. He asked me if I wanted to be part of the probem (of evil in the world) or part of the solution.
It was at this point I turned back to God (repentance) but only my heart was there and not yet my life. I think I still thought I could handle most of my problems.

For me I had to see that I wasn't really able to handle even the smallest problems and that I needed a Savior from sin all the time. Coupled with a newfound sense of being able to have The Spirit with me all the time made the decision all the more attractive.

I love hearing the testimonies of different people, and how the Holy Spirit works in them. Thank you for sharing. In my case, I think my head knew the truth, but my heart didn't get it. Like you, I wasn't able to come to the point of repentance on my own. It was the Holy Spirit and godly sorrow that brought me to that point.

 

[djhwoodwerks]

I had an interesting meeting with my JW friend today. We started out by discussing what God's purpose for the earth was, then we were talking about heaven. He asked if I believe that only 144,000 will be in heaven and everyone else will be on earth, I said that I wasn't quite sure yet because I was still studying that topic. I told him that the 144,000 are only mentioned twice in the Bible and neither instance mentions them being in heaven. I asked him to show me where the Bible says they are in heaven, he went to Revelation 7:13 and proceeded to read. When he read verse 15 he asked me where the throne of God was and said, "in heaven, right?" I stopped him and asked, " you're using these verses to prove the 144,000 are in heaven?" he said yes, so I let him read on. He stopped at verse 17 and said this is proof the 144,00 are in heaven. I asked him 3 times, "you're saying these verses prove the 144,000 are in heaven, correct?" I wanted to make sure he understood what he was saying, and he said yes every time. I said, ok, let's start at verse 9 and read it again. Then the meaning suddenly changed! He didn't want to admit the verses he read were talking about the "great crowd". After reading from verse 9 everything became symbolic! He started asking irrelevant questions like, "what does white robes mean?", do you think everyone will be walking around in long white robes?" Then he said, "they have palm branches, do you think there will be palm branches in heaven?" While he was "proving" the 144,000 were in heaven with verses 13-17, he refused to admit those verses "proved" the great crowd is in heaven. They became symbolic when they were talking about the crowd

 

[katiemygirl]

I had an interesting meeting with my JW friend today. We started out by discussing what God's purpose for the earth was, then we were talking about heaven. He asked if I believe that only 144,000 will be in heaven and everyone else will be on earth, I said that I wasn't quite sure yet because I was still studying that topic. I told him that the 144,000 are only mentioned twice in the Bible and neither instance mentions them being in heaven. I asked him to show me where the Bible says they are in heaven, he went to Revelation 7:13 and proceeded to read. When he read verse 15 he asked me where the throne of God was and said, "in heaven, right?" I stopped him and asked, " you're using these verses to prove the 144,000 are in heaven?" he said yes, so I let him read on. He stopped at verse 17 and said this is proof the 144,00 are in heaven. I asked him 3 times, "you're saying these verses prove the 144,000 are in heaven, correct?" I wanted to make sure he understood what he was saying, and he said yes every time. I said, ok, let's start at verse 9 and read it again. Then the meaning suddenly changed! He didn't want to admit the verses he read were talking about the "great crowd". After reading from verse 9 everything became symbolic! He started asking irrelevant questions like, "what does white robes mean?", do you think everyone will be walking around in long white robes?" Then he said, "they have palm branches, do you think there will be palm branches in heaven?" While he was "proving" the 144,000 were in heaven with verses 13-17, he refused to admit those verses "proved" the great crowd is in heaven. They became symbolic when they were talking about the crowd

You made a great point with your friend. It's always best to let the JW's read aloud to you. It's amazing how they can read over the same passage repeatedly and only see what they want to see.

I am seeing this same thing in another thread. People will take a passage and pick which parts they want to take literal, and which parts they want to be symbolic. It is obvious they are trying to force the Scriptures into fitting their theology.

Does your friend believe this is good Bible hermeneutics? What is his justification for switching between literal and symbolic language?

Hang in there with him dj. I will pray your friend sees the true, not the new light.

 

[Yoshua]

You made a great point with your friend. It's always best to let the JW's read aloud to you. It's amazing how they can read over the same passage repeatedly and only see what they want to see.

I am seeing this same thing in another thread. People will take a passage and pick which parts they want to take literal, and which parts they want to be symbolic. It is obvious they are trying to force the Scriptures into fitting their theology.

Does your friend believe this is good Bible hermeneutics? What is his justification for switching between literal and symbolic language?

Hang in there with him dj. I will pray your friend sees the true, not the new light.

Truly they are fed up with literatures and programmable teachings over and over again. It is a nice thing to hear djhwoodwerks story.
Hi Katie, may I know your faith, a baptist? a former JW member?

 

[katiemygirl]

Truly they are fed up with literatures and programmable teachings over and over again. It is a nice thing to hear djhwoodwerks story.
Hi Katie, may I know your faith, a baptist? a former JW member?

Definitely not a former JW. Not a Baptist either. I'm a non denominational christian. I'd be happy to share my basic beliefs over pm. I would like to know yours as well.

Blessings,
Katie