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JW's Preach A Different Gospel
- Thread starter katiemygirl
- Start date
Ha ha ha. He got you good! You can't argue with Marvel.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
Oh yes we can!!!
Even Jesus was called a "Witness" of Jehovah. (Rev 3:14) Collectively, the nation of Israel was also called Jehovah's Witnesses. (Isa 43: 10). I rest my case. 
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Thankyou kate... you make a good point about the goal to reach perfection and thats absolutely right... we must reach perfection as Jesus is helping us to do.
And Pauls counsel to 'move beyond the elementary teachings' is one way we can do that.
You see, if you continually feed a baby milk it will grow, but eventually milk is not enough for it.... it needs something more solid to fill its appetite. And this is why we need to move beyond those 'elementary' teachings which are the foundations of our faith. Eventually those teachings wont satisfy our spiritual hunger.
The gospel preached by Jehovahs earthly organisation teaches those elementary foundational beliefs, but we also teach more meaty subjects like how Gods Kingdom will work, what it will accomplish and how we as christians can actively support that kingdom arrangement while still living in a world ruled by Satan the devil.
Our Gospel is not false... it has simply moved beyond the elementary things so that we can advance to maturity as the scriptures direct.
EVIDENCE #1: In Isaiah 43:10, of the NWT we read, "You are my Witnesses," is the utterance of Jehovah, "even my servant whom I have chosen." The Watchtower views verses like this one to justify their sole authority in matters of Faith. In context, however, this verse is referring STRICTLY to Israel as a collective witness to the pagan nations. It is a very wild leap to take a verse referring to Israel as Gods Witness to the pagan nations in the Old Testament times (over 7 Centuries BEFORE the time of Christ), and claim it's fulfillment in a modern-day religious group some 1,900 years AFTER the time of Christ. It is a classic example of "scripture twisting."Oh yes we can!!!
EVIDENCE #2: The New Testament reminds us, tells us, and even commands us to be Witnesses, of Jesus, not Jehovah.
"This Jesus God raised up, and of that WE ALL ARE WITNESSES." (Acts 2:32)
"But God raised Him from the dead, and for many days He appeared to those who had come up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, WHO ARE NOW HIS WITNESSES to the People." (Acts 13:30-31)
And in Acts 1:8, Jesus affirmed to His Disciples: "But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you, and YOU WILL BE WITNESSES OF ME in Jerusalem, in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”
Were early Christians witnesses of Jehovah or Jesus Christ?
Some are good with speech, others are good with writing, and then others with memes. I think I have a little talent for all three, though hardly a master at any of them. I do post many things, non cut and paste of course, but every so often, I critique through memes as well. You haven't answered my Top Ten Reasons Jesus isn't Michael, and I doubt you ever will. So if your never going to answer my proofs, why should I bother if you can't handle simple meme criticism? Have a good dayI see you must resort to the childish nonsense again. I can only plead with you to grow up.
JayJayDee
Avid JW Bible Student
Some are good with speech, others are good with writing, and then others with memes. I think I have a little talent for all three, though hardly a master at any of them. I do post many things, non cut and paste of course, but every so often, I critique through memes as well. You haven't answered my Top Ten Reasons Jesus isn't Michael, and I doubt you ever will. So if your never going to answer my proofs, why should I bother if you can't handle simple meme criticism? Have a good day
What you post is repetitive stuff I have noticed. Posting the same copied and pasted response in multiple threads or repeating it on the same thread is actually against the forum rules.
With your attitude, I am really not interested in your top ten opinions or in discussing anything further really.
Just wanted to remind you that you are among adults and resorting to that juvenile nonsense does nothing but destroy any credibility that you imagine you have.
Be careful what you ridicule....it has a way of backfiring on a person. (1 Cor 10:12; Rom 12:3)
Well, if I have a good point, why not post it on different threads so long as it's on topic? That's the point of forums is it not? Getting your point across? And repetitive can mean you as well can it not? After all, you've posted basically the same thing multiple times. Do I scold you for it? No, cause I'm an Adult. I know when you argue for your beliefs, things naturally get repetitive. So you can keep on acting as if I'm a child, but if you refuse to answer my valid points and then make excuses to why not, and then find time to degrade me when I'm just stating my views in clever ways... Whose the child and whose the adult. Have a nice day
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
I agree that we, in our own, personal spiritual lives, must move on to maturity. We are all works in progress.
BUT.......God forbid that I should ever move away from preaching His gospel to the lost!
You see Pegg, the gospel I preach to the lost doesn't change or move beyond elementary things. I preach the exact same gospel that Peter, Paul and the others preached because it is the gospel message, which saves.. It is the ONLY gospel. But you preach a different gospel to the lost.
Have you ever really looked at the gospel Peter and Paul preached? I would ask you to read Acts 2, 3 and then 13. There are many more examples, but these three come to mind. PLEASE read, and meditate on them.
Peter and Paul's messages were identical. Jesus is the Messiah. He was crucified. He died, and was buried. God raised Jesus to life. You, too, can live forever if you believe the gospel.
I'm sorry to say that this is not the gospel you preach. The gospel Peter and Paul preached is the message all Christians should be bringing to the lost of this world. It is the gospel message that saves through belief in Jesus Christ.
If you examine the Scriptures closely, you will never find YOUR gospel being spoken by anyone. Your entire religion relies on the poetic and prophetic portions of the BIble. You refuse to recognize figurative language, except when it fits your theology.
I challenge you or any JW to provide an example of the Watchtower gospel (posted below) being preached anywhere in Scripture.
"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel" or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914." (Watchtower, May 1, 1981, p. 17)
I pray you take the advice of the above quote and with an honest heart compare the gospel Peter and Paul preached in Acts 2, 3 and 13 with Watchtower's gospel which says, "God's heavenly kingdom was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914."
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katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
I, for one, appreciate you posting in both threads. That way I know if I miss it in one, I'll see it in another. Thanks JFish123.Well, if I have a good point, why not post it on different threads so long as it's on topic? That's the point of forums is it not? Getting your point across? And repetitive can mean you as well can it not? After all, you've posted basically the same thing multiple times. Do I scold you for it? No, cause I'm an Adult. I know when you argue for your beliefs, things naturally get repetitive. So you can keep on acting as if I'm a child, but if you refuse to answer my valid points and then make excuses to why not, and then find time to degrade me when I'm just stating my views in clever ways... Whose the child and whose the adult. Have a nice day
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
You dont need to challenge... you can simply 'ask' for examples and they will be given. We are not here to fight with you.
What is the gospel we preach on the subject of Gods Kingdom?
And click here if you want to find out why 1914 is the year we believe that Christs Kingdom began to rule,
Here are a few other subjects you might like to analyse:
Gods Word the Holy Bible
The Future of our world
How God will put an end to Suffering
What happens after death
Who rules the world
If any of this is not scriptural, please feel free to let me know.
katiemygirl
CHRISTIAN
Sorry Pegg. I didn't mean my use of the word challenge to be interpreted as fight. Fighting has never been my intention. I'm sorry you thought that.
Were those supposed to be links you posted? If so, none are working.
Pegg, I have never had a JW come to my door and preach the same gospel as Peter and Paul preached: salvation by belief in the gospel.
You may very well, at some point in your attempt to convert people to Watchtower, tell people about the DB&R of Jesus, and that they need to believe. But shouldn't that be priority? Isn't it the job of Christians to take this gospel to the lost?
Here is what Jesus said in Luke 24.
45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.48 “You are witnesses of these things.
What were His disciples to proclaim? Repentance and forgiveness of sins.
Not one word said about "paradise earth."
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Once upon a time there was a preacher who preached the gospel. He had lived a very difficult life believing that there would no longer be any physical temple for Jews and that the temple of prayer for all people would not be physical. The third temple had been or would soon be or was effectively destroyed. Now he believed that the next temple would be the one written in Ezekiel but that it would be made of people. The 'House of prayer for all people' would be built not on stones but on a sure foundation. He had many mystical interpretations like that, and he believed rather than a physical city that Jerusalem (Peace) was a spiritual city that would come from heaven. It would be a city that could not be besieged or attacked, and its lamp-stand could never be taken, unlike his own original city of peace. His original city, a physical city named Peace, which he loved, which was overrun multiple times by wars was not that city. The true Jerusalem would be a city lit only by God where no sun or moon was necessary. It would be a kingdom made without hands and a light that could never be hidden.
There were people who opposed the preacher who preached the gospel. Emotions were already high hot and worn, because times were difficult. To some it seemed like he was giving up, like he had given up hope; but that was far from the truth. It seemed that way, because he did not advocate resistance but compliance. He had not given up hope but had found a hope that did not depend upon buildings or upon perfect recitations and rituals. He had lost faith in those things but not in the goal of that house of prayer and peace upon earth. Salvation, preservation, renewal or the reproduction or the mirroring of all that was good, he believed this would be accomplished. After all it was God who began all good things. It was God who would see them through. How God would do it, he did not know or did not say. He only knew that humankind had failed to accomplish what he believed that God would accomplish. He preached an incomplete plan. Many people did not take him seriously of course.
There were people who opposed the preacher who preached the gospel. Emotions were already high hot and worn, because times were difficult. To some it seemed like he was giving up, like he had given up hope; but that was far from the truth. It seemed that way, because he did not advocate resistance but compliance. He had not given up hope but had found a hope that did not depend upon buildings or upon perfect recitations and rituals. He had lost faith in those things but not in the goal of that house of prayer and peace upon earth. Salvation, preservation, renewal or the reproduction or the mirroring of all that was good, he believed this would be accomplished. After all it was God who began all good things. It was God who would see them through. How God would do it, he did not know or did not say. He only knew that humankind had failed to accomplish what he believed that God would accomplish. He preached an incomplete plan. Many people did not take him seriously of course.
McBell
Unbound
Bold empty claims until such time as you can show which preaching is the one true preaching of the one true god.I agree that we, in our own, personal spiritual lives, must move on to maturity. We are all works in progress.
BUT.......God forbid that I should ever move away from preaching His gospel to the lost!
You see Pegg, the gospel I preach to the lost doesn't change or move beyond elementary things. I preach the exact same gospel that Peter, Paul and the others preached because it is the gospel message, which saves.. It is the ONLY gospel. But you preach a different gospel to the lost.
Have you ever really looked at the gospel Peter and Paul preached? I would ask you to read Acts 2, 3 and then 13. There are many more examples, but these three come to mind. PLEASE read, and meditate on them.
Peter and Paul's messages were identical. Jesus is the Messiah. He was crucified. He died, and was buried. God raised Jesus to life. You, too, can live forever if you believe the gospel.
I'm sorry to say that this is not the gospel you preach. The gospel Peter and Paul preached is the message all Christians should be bringing to the lost of this world. It is the gospel message that saves through belief in Jesus Christ.
If you examine the Scriptures closely, you will never find YOUR gospel being spoken by anyone. Your entire religion relies on the poetic and prophetic portions of the BIble. You refuse to recognize figurative language, except when it fits your theology.
I challenge you or any JW to provide an example of the Watchtower gospel (posted below) being preached anywhere in Scripture.
"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel" or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914." (Watchtower, May 1, 1981, p. 17)
I pray you take the advice of the above quote and with an honest heart compare the gospel Peter and Paul preached in Acts 2, 3 and 13 with Watchtower's gospel which says, "God's heavenly kingdom was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914."
All you are doing is showing how the preaching is different.
When are you going to show which preaching is the one true preaching of the one true god?
Ok, to arrive at this date of 1914, the Watchtower takes the account in Daniel 4 and apply a 360-day year for each of the seven "times" for a total of 2520 years. They add this date to 607 B.C., their date for the fall of Jerusalem under Nebuchadnezzar, and arrive at A.D. 1914, the date when Jesus supposedly returned invisibly in the heavens (The Truth Shall Make You Free, p. 300).
"This marked time began in the year (A.D.) 1914. In that important year the 'appointed times of the nations,' 2,520 years long, ran out. IF WE MEASURE BACK THAT MANY YEARS FROM 1914, WE COME TO THE ANCIENT DATE OF 607 B.C. That year was marked for the overthrow of the earthly "throne of Jehovah" and for THE DESTRUCTION OF THE THRONE CITY OF JERUSALEM and its sanctuary and for the total desolation of the land of the kingdom of Judah." (From the Book, "Your Will," 1958, pp. 309-310, Watchtower CD, emphasis added).
Therefore, the date 607 B.C. becomes the critical date in question. Was 607 B.C. the date when Jerusalem fell? No, it wasn't. No Bible scholar and no archaeological scholar holds to that date. The correct date is 586 B.C. and not 607 B.C. Therefore, the Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong about 1914 and everything else they attach to that date based on their prophet misunderstanding.
Following are citations verifying that the correct date for the fall of Jerusalem was not 607 B.C. but 586 B.C.:
EVIDENCE #1: According to Encyclopedia.com, the Babylonian captivity is defined as "the period from the fall of Jerusalem (586 B.C.) to the reconstruction in Palestine of a new Jewish state (after 538 B.C.)."
EVIDENCE #2: "You will recall that the Babylonians, under Nebuchadnezzar, after twice laying siege to Jerusalem, finally captured it in 586 B.C.E. Nebuchadnezzar's army then pillaged the city, destroying the Temple and sending the inhabitants off to exile in Babylonia. ("Biblical Archaeological Review, Biblical Archaelogical Review).
EVIDENCE #3:
" . . . Nebuchadnezzar promptly invaded his unhappy country and besieged Jerusalem for a year and a half. In 587 Jerusalem fell and numbers of its inhabitants were carried away captive to Babylonia . . . " (Unger, Merrill, F., Unger's Bible Dictionary, Moody Press, Chicago, 1966, page 782).
Notice that the year 587 is offered instead of 586. There is sometimes a difference of opinion as to which year is the exact one. Nevertheless, it is obvious that 607 B.C. is not even close.
EVIDENCE #4: "586, Jerusalem destroyed and burned (Jer. 52:13b.); people taken captive (52:28-30). (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1982, page 1016).
It is quite clear that the Jehovah's Witness organization is wrong about the 607 B.C. date upon which they place so much of their end-times' theology. If they are wrong about such a basic event and have not changed their error to match historical fact, how can they be trusted to represent Biblical truth? They cannot.
The fact is that they cannot change their date of 1914 because they have so much invested in it. They are forced to retain their 607 B.C. date even though it is in obvious error. To admit they were wrong is to undermine the whole credibility and truth of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. This they cannot do because they are more dedicated to their organization than they are to the truth.
Consider what the Apostle Paul has to say about a “different gospel,”
“I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!” (Galatians 1:6–9)
While the Jehovah’s Witnesses may not admit to preaching a “contrary” gospel, it is certainly not the same gospel as the Bible declares. However, adding a complex and speculative chronological system to the gospel couldn’t be anything but another gospel!
“Approved association with Jehovah’s Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. What do such beliefs include? . . . That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ’s foretold presence.”
-The Watchtower 4/1/86 p. 31
Some may be unaware that Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that a person must worship Jehovah in association with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in order to be saved. Therefore, if someone is not in “approved association,” then he is not saved. Thus, the acceptance or rejection of 1914 can affect your very salvation. It is important to stress to the Jehovah’s Witnesses that they should consider whether the early church could have had anything like this in mind, namely, a salvation requirement that includes complex, speculative chronologies.
For More Info on this and other Subjects, please visit CARM.org
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
For more BS and hateful rhetoric, visit the ministry dedicated to pitting Christian against Christian: HARM.org. With a little effort, you too can become as good at twisting the truth as Mr. Matt Slick himself. And once you become proficient at bashing every Christian denomination other than yours, you'll feel so good about yourself.
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Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
What is the purpose of Gods kingdom?
Jesus preached about everlasting life. He told the criminal who was hung beside him "you will be with me in paradise" at luke 23:43
Im sorry Kate but everlasting life in a paradise earth was preached by Jesus.
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