JW's Preach A Different Gospel

[katiemygirl]

Revelation was written by John who claimed he was inspired by God. So that scripture you listen to what God inspired John to write, and with what he wrote was valid enough to believe that it was from God. That sounds like an endless circle that makes my head hurt. I'm not even sure what John was referring to when he wrote 'knock on my door' in that chapter. I wish this was explained a lot more throughly.

I'm sorry you feel so confused. I was very blessed to have a mother who instilled in me faith and trust in God. I will always remember her asking me, whenever I would tell her my troubles, "Have you prayed about it? Have you asked God to help you?"

I've never questioned the inspiration of the Bible. I trust it completely. Are the English translations perfect? Probably not, but I believe God has kept them pure enough so that we can know His message and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

You might want to consider my Mom's advice. Pray about it. Ask God to help you through your doubts. It can't hurt.

 

[savagewind]

*** bh p. 214 par. 3 Judgment Day—What Is It? *** What the Bible "REALLY" Teaches!
The scrolls must therefore represent God’s further requirements. To live forever, both Armageddon survivors and resurrected ones will have to obey God’s commandments, including whatever new requirements Jehovah might reveal during the thousand years. Thus, individuals will be judged on the basis of what they do during Judgment Day. (This is strange, I've never heard of a criminal being judged for what he does during his trial!)


*** bh p. 215 par. 1 Judgment Day—What Is It? *** What the Bible "REALLY" Teaches!
Judgment Day will give billions of people their first opportunity to learn about God’s will and to conform to it. This means that a large-scale educational work will take place.

I have asked several times of the Jehovah's Witnesses the question, who will tell them what Jehovah might reveal during the thousand years? The reason why I think it is an important question needing an answer is that they say for now Jehovah' s will is being communicated through the governing body professing to be the faithful and discreet slave. But they also profess to be of the 144,000 who they say will reign with Jesus Christ from Heaven. So? When they are in Heaven to complete the 144,00 which they say is a literal number WHO will be communicating God's will for the Earth? Someone said it will be other men not of the 144,000 who will be assigned the task. But does that make sense? I have heard many times that if new light does not come from the faithful and discreet slave then it is not to be believed by them. They say that.

 

[savethedreams]

I wonder how Jehovah Witnesses respond to questions about the Faithful & Discreet Slave. How would one go preaching door to door that their message is trustworthy? I use to preach in field service but I never told anyone , or defending The Watchtower door to door directly. It seems we always had to ease them in as if the bible wasn't enough.

 

[savagewind]

I wonder how Jehovah Witnesses respond to questions about the Faithful & Discreet Slave. How would one go preaching door to door that their message is trustworthy? I use to preach in field service but I never told anyone , or defending The Watchtower door to door directly. It seems we always had to ease them in as if the bible wasn't enough.

They say that Jesus said to make disciples and that he said the good news must be preached before the end of wickedness. They always say that they alone are doing it per the order of Jehovah so that is their proof. I believed them. But then when I got rid of the Watchtower chains I saw that there are many people preaching Jesus Christ. Their response is that no one else is promising a paradise Earth in which to live.

 

[savethedreams]

JW are not the only ones preaching the bible , nor the only one telling people about similar beliefs they share. However, me preaching and obeying the bible shouldn't have to include THe faithful & discreet Slave. So i ask how can they defend them or preach about them to those who have accepted Jesus ?

 

[savagewind]

JW are not the only ones preaching the bible , nor the only one telling people about similar beliefs they share. However, me preaching and obeying the bible shouldn't have to include THe faithful & discreet Slave. So i ask how can they defend them or preach about them to those who have accepted Jesus ?

They are in the Bible, according to the Jehovah's Witnesses. Even though the Bible says "do not think more of yourself than is necessary" they think they are personally mentioned. Romans 12:3

 

[Pegg]

What then? Read the passage below. The answer is right there, plain as the nose on your face. I've posted "what then" at least four times to you personally. Do you ever read the Scriptures I post?

What did Peter tell the Jews after he'd told them about the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus?

Acts 2
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”


38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

How did Jesus prioritize His teaching? Did He not say to FIRST make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit? And SECOND, teach them to obey everything I have commanded you? Yes, no?

You do just the opposite. You indoctrinate into Watchtower teachings first, and then you baptize, a year or more later, into the JW organization. You won't even listen to the simplest of Jesus' directions.

Matthew 28
18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

"Teaching them to obey everything i have commanded' implies that they must know more then simply repentance and baptism.

there is much more to christianity... they must also do the work that Jesus did...they must become teachers of Gods word for example.

There are many who claim to be Christian yet dont do what Jesus did.

 

[Pegg]

I wonder how Jehovah Witnesses respond to questions about the Faithful & Discreet Slave. How would one go preaching door to door that their message is trustworthy? I use to preach in field service but I never told anyone , or defending The Watchtower door to door directly. It seems we always had to ease them in as if the bible wasn't enough.

The bible is enough. If someone says they teach from the bible, then its very simple to compare their teachings with the bible to determine if they are teaching from the bible or not.

The faithful and discreet slave publish bible truths... millions around the world are examining the bible to see if that is true and they are finding the truth.

 

[Pegg]

JW are not the only ones preaching the bible , nor the only one telling people about similar beliefs they share. However, me preaching and obeying the bible shouldn't have to include THe faithful & discreet Slave. So i ask how can they defend them or preach about them to those who have accepted Jesus ?

Accepting Jesus is not enough. We must also 'observe all the things' Christ commanded and uphold Gods high moral standards. You'll be hard pressed to find another denomination who help their congregations to actually do either of these things. That in itself should help honest people trust the faithful and discreet slave to 'shephard' them in the ways of Christ.

 

[savethedreams]

The bible is enough. If someone says they teach from the bible, then its very simple to compare their teachings with the bible to determine if they are teaching from the bible or not.

The faithful and discreet slave publish bible truths... millions around the world are examining the bible to see if that is true and they are finding the truth.

This was my issue. One can't say 'the bible is enough' then publish or study multiple 'guides' and use them as equal as the bible. I sat at meetings where we didn't read the bible, we read the publications and compared to the bible. That a problem for me and that seems disrespectful to the bible itself. If we are Bible readers , there is no need to compare and contrast or to have a book and compare it with scriptures. The bible itself is the only book that should be of need. Outside of that I'm not sure why it is allowed, tolerated or even preached. Even when I was in my ministry, the give someone a watchtower and awake to tell them to read their bible with it, seems very awkward, it seems as if I'm forcing an interpretation of the scripture instead of the bible speaking for itself.

I started to leave everything at home, and only preached with my bible, no invitations to memorial, no watchtowers, no books. I only preached with my bible and read directly from the scriptures and I was scorned for not having Faithful & Disecrett slave literature with me. This confused me, especially since we never explained to people why we are giving people magazines and counting them , as oppose to counting how many scriptures we read to people.

 

[savethedreams]

Accepting Jesus is not enough. We must also 'observe all the things' Christ commanded and uphold Gods high moral standards. You'll be hard pressed to find another denomination who help their congregations to actually do either of these things. That in itself should help honest people trust the faithful and discreet slave to 'shephard' them in the ways of Christ.

Most Christians including JW, do not just 'observe the things' Christ commanded. They uphold Paul and other writings that aren't directly said or quoted form Jesus, but accepted as holy, which is questionable. The major difference is that JW are required to trust the Slave rules & regulations without question as well as the bible. JW view the Slave and The Bible as the same high authority, similar to the way most Christians may do Paul.

If we are saying 'listen to christ only, is being a christians and reject anything outside' then I can reason. The problem is, Christians and JW say 'obey Christ' and 'God' but include all these other people, books , organizations as from God, even if God never mentioned them directly. Which leads to the question, IS following Christ , only following and listening to Christ?

 

[Pegg]

This was my issue. One can't say 'the bible is enough' then publish or study multiple 'guides' and use them as equal as the bible. I sat at meetings where we didn't read the bible, we read the publications and compared to the bible. That a problem for me and that seems disrespectful to the bible itself. If we are Bible readers , there is no need to compare and contrast or to have a book and compare it with scriptures. The bible itself is the only book that should be of need. Outside of that I'm not sure why it is allowed, tolerated or even preached. Even when I was in my ministry, the give someone a watchtower and awake to tell them to read their bible with it, seems very awkward, it seems as if I'm forcing an interpretation of the scripture instead of the bible speaking for itself.

I started to leave everything at home, and only preached with my bible, no invitations to memorial, no watchtowers, no books. I only preached with my bible and read directly from the scriptures and I was scorned for not having Faithful & Disecrett slave literature with me. This confused me, especially since we never explained to people why we are giving people magazines and counting them , as oppose to counting how many scriptures we read to people.

I doubt you were 'scorned' for not having literature with you. Even the pioneer service school used to encourage us to go out preaching with only a bible. If we had perfect memories and knew every topic and every scripture, then we could preach without additional literature. But the fact is we need something to help us preach. Our literature helps us open a discussion with a topical subject and the scriptures pertaining to the subject. And if the person enjoys the discussion and topic, we can leave something with them to refer to when they want to find information in their own bibles.

You may have a perfect memory, but I certainly dont. Im not a great speaker and I dont like talking to strangers....so without something to make it a little easier, I would have a very hard time fulfilling my obligation to 'go and make disciples'

 

[savethedreams]

I doubt you were 'scorned' for not having literature with you. Even the pioneer service school used to encourage us to go out preaching with only a bible. If we had perfect memories and knew every topic and every scripture, then we could preach without additional literature. But the fact is we need something to help us preach. Our literature helps us open a discussion with a topical subject and the scriptures pertaining to the subject. And if the person enjoys the discussion and topic, we can leave something with them to refer to when they want to find information in their own bibles.

You may have a perfect memory, but I certainly dont. Im not a great speaker and I dont like talking to strangers....so without something to make it a little easier, I would have a very hard time fulfilling my obligation to 'go and make disciples'

I don't have perfect memory. I'm not a christian currently, nor am I a "Bible-Believer' for various reason outside this thread. I do respect all faiths, but I do debate and have my own opinions and investigations, and things i learn, hence the reason why most come to religiousforums.com . I do believe you miss my point and objective and took a personal route, if you feel offended I do apologize for such.

 

[Pegg]

Most Christians including JW, do not just 'observe the things' Christ commanded. They uphold Paul and other writings that aren't directly said or quoted form Jesus, but accepted as holy, which is questionable.

If you really do believe the writings of the Apostle Paul are questionable, i understand why you objected to using WT literature in the field ministry.

Do you really believe the Christian scriptures are questionable??? Pauls writings make up most of the books of the Christian scriptures...what do you do with them?

The major difference is that JW are required to trust the Slave rules & regulations without question as well as the bible.

What rules and regulations are you refering to??

JW view the Slave and The Bible as the same high authority, similar to the way most Christians may do Paul.

Paul was appointed by Jesus to fulfill a ministry, so of course christians in the first century accepted the authority bestowed upon him.
Moses was appointed to lead the nation of Israel out of Egypt, and of course the Israelites accepted the authority bestowed upon him.

Likewise today, we believe the WT has authority granted to it from above... so we accept that they are an authority in these last days as Jesus indicated when he said he would 'appoint' the slave who proved faithful and discreet over 'all of his belongings' which would include the Christian congregation.

If we are saying 'listen to christ only, is being a christians and reject anything outside' then I can reason. The problem is, Christians and JW say 'obey Christ' and 'God' but include all these other people, books , organizations as from God, even if God never mentioned them directly. Which leads to the question, IS following Christ , only following and listening to Christ?

The fact is that God does not deal directly with mankind. So we need intercessors. Its always been this way from the time that Adam sinned. Jesus is our redeemer because he was appointed by Jehovah to be that one. We recognise that his authority comes from God. And Jesus, having such authority gave authority to his 12 apostles...they in turn appointed older men to oversee congregations and the congregations accepted the authority given to them.

If we recognise that appointments come from above, then we should respect those appointments. All authority on earth is relative to the Authority of Christ and therefore when we submit to his representatives on earth, we submit to him. So we dont view the Governing Body as our authority... they simply direct us to the head of the congregation and thats why we follow their direction and guidance. Its always been this way because God is not dealing directly with us. He uses appointed representatives.

 

[InChrist]

Accepting Jesus is not enough.

This is very telling. It is hard for me to believe that anyone or any group proclaiming to believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior would dare say, "Accepting Jesus is not enough", yet I do understand that some organizations/religions must say such things so that they can claim the mediator role which truly belongs only to Christ (1 Tim. 2:5), thereby gaining control over the lives of their members and stealing the place of the sufficiency of Christ. But the scriptures say...

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. 1 John 2:24-29

 

[savethedreams]

If you really do believe the writings of the Apostle Paul are questionable, i understand why you objected to using WT literature in the field ministry.

Do you really believe the Christian scriptures are questionable??? Pauls writings make up most of the books of the Christian scriptures...what do you do with them?



What rules and regulations are you refering to??



Paul was appointed by Jesus to fulfill a ministry, so of course christians in the first century accepted the authority bestowed upon him.
Moses was appointed to lead the nation of Israel out of Egypt, and of course the Israelites accepted the authority bestowed upon him.

Likewise today, we believe the WT has authority granted to it from above... so we accept that they are an authority in these last days as Jesus indicated when he said he would 'appoint' the slave who proved faithful and discreet over 'all of his belongings' which would include the Christian congregation.



The fact is that God does not deal directly with mankind. So we need intercessors. Its always been this way from the time that Adam sinned. Jesus is our redeemer because he was appointed by Jehovah to be that one. We recognise that his authority comes from God. And Jesus, having such authority gave authority to his 12 apostles...they in turn appointed older men to oversee congregations and the congregations accepted the authority given to them.

If we recognise that appointments come from above, then we should respect those appointments. All authority on earth is relative to the Authority of Christ and therefore when we submit to his representatives on earth, we submit to him. So we dont view the Governing Body as our authority... they simply direct us to the head of the congregation and thats why we follow their direction and guidance. Its always been this way because God is not dealing directly with us. He uses appointed representatives.

Why are Paul letters included in the biblical cannons as oppose to the others? What does the JW / Faithful Slave say about that ? How can we preach that using just the bible ?


It seems very ironic , and weird that the person telling you that God speaks through a representative is the representative them-self.

 

[Pegg]

This is very telling. It is hard for me to believe that anyone or any group proclaiming to believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior would dare say, "Accepting Jesus is not enough", yet I do understand that some organizations/religions must say such things so that they can claim the mediator role which truly belongs only to Christ (1 Tim. 2:5), thereby gaining control over the lives of their members and stealing the place of the sufficiency of Christ. But the scriptures say...

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. 1 John 2:24-29

What does it mean, to 'abide in' ?

 

[JayJayDee]

How do you 'believe' ? Why do you choose to 'believe' over everything else? What exactly are we believing? Are we believing that John was inspired? Are we believing that the translation was correct in english ? Are we believing that the chosen books were the right ones and nothing else was 'godly inspired? That even more confusing to me. I'm trying to understand it my entire life.

Why does anyone choose to "believe" anything or anyone?

We have an inherent need to believe in something outside of ourselves. No culture on earth has ever been devoid of spirituality in some form. The trouble is many have been led to believe that spirituality and spiritism are the same thing. This has led them into false worship and association with God's adversary.

Some have been led to praise the creation but not the Creator....science has become their "religion" and they are as passionate about defending their beliefs as any other.

We all believe what we choose to believe, and we all have the freedom from our Creator to do that. He doesn't force anyone to believe in him or to serve his interests.....he allows us to decide to do that or not from the exercise of our own free will. No one will be forced to live a life that they don't want. But unless they choose to live the way God says they should, they will have to forfeit their existence. There is no "heaven or hell"...there is just "life or death". From the Bible's point of view, the opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death.

If the Creator has the power to create the universe, and he has a purpose in putting living creatures on this planet, then to preserve his instructions in a book written by human secretaries is a small thing. No attempt to destroy this book has ever been successful. Having an up-to-date translation is important as language changes take place over time.

To the extent that we abide by the instructions written in it, we will benefit. It is a work filled with God's interactions with humankind, most especially those with whom he has made a covenant. We have his instructions, his laws and the consequences for the actions those people (and by extension, ourselves) chose to take...good or bad.

According to the scriptures, there are two kinds of "believers" in the world today...the deluded and the enlightened. (2 Thess 2:9-12)

We all belong to either one camp or the other...by our own choices. There are only "sheep and goats"..."wheat and weeds"....a "road to life and a road to death". Once we understand that those are our only choices, it narrows things down somewhat.

God has one purpose to our existence and in his word, we can find out what that purpose is and either love it or hate it. God will not interfere with what we choose to do with that knowledge, for the simple reason that our response to what he is offering tells him whether we would make good citizens of his kingdom or not. He does not want people in his kingdom who hate it and don't want to be there. Rebels have no place in his arrangement.

Can we get an understanding of why he allows us the choice? Whatever choice we make will be in accord with the person we are at heart....this will be a person who is either attracted to what God is offering or who will be repelled by it....someone who is interested in pleasing God, or only interested in pleasing themselves.

Wherever we find ourselves at the end of the day...is where we ought to be. Our choices will allow God to determine which category of humanity we fit into. One is offered an extension of life, whilst the other has it removed altogether.

Surely that is not so difficult to understand? This is what we get "saved" from....God's adverse judgment.
We either don't know God because we don't want to know him....or we know what he requires and ignore him. (2 Thess 1:6-9) Sad, but simple.

 

[Pegg]

Why are Paul letters included in the biblical cannons as oppose to the others? What does the JW / Faithful Slave say about that ? How can we preach that using just the bible ?


It seems very ironic , and weird that the person telling you that God speaks through a representative is the representative them-self.

Pauls letters are included because he was an inspired writer, he spoke prophecy which has been fulfilled, he upheld Gods high moral standards, he devoted himself to Christ in carrying out the directive to preach the good news of the Kingdom.

Paul raised people from the dead! The powerful works he displayed proved he had his commission from Christ and he had the power of holy spirit upon him just as Moses did.

No christian doubted Pauls authority... he was instrumental in establishing Christianity among the gentiles in the first century.

 

[katiemygirl]

"Teaching them to obey everything i have commanded' implies that they must know more then simply repentance and baptism.

there is much more to christianity... they must also do the work that Jesus did...they must become teachers of Gods word for example.

There are many who claim to be Christian yet dont do what Jesus did.

You seem to be arguing a moot point. Of course there is much more to Christianity than repentance and baptism. But without repentance and baptism, there is no forgiveness of sins. Baptism and repentance are of first and primary importance. Without forgiveness, one is lost.

We start out with belief in Christ. Repentance and baptism for forgiveness of sins follows. Our Biblical examples show believers being baptized immediately after believing the gospel, not a year or more later. From that point, the lives of disciples are spent learning to observe everything Jesus commanded.

You see Pegg, Christendom sees salvation and forgiveness of sins to be the number one concern in this life. Without forgiveness, there will be no eternal fellowship with God. Instead, there will be eternal punishment. They understand that they can have salvation and forgiveness by faith in Christ. They KNOW the Bible does not teach second chances in a so-called "paradise earth." They understand that TODAY is the day of salvation.

JW's don't teach that same sense of urgency to be forgiven and saved NOW. Instead, they offer a false salvation in a future"paradise earth" that the Bible never once mentions. They offer a second chance, which no Scripture ever promises sinners.