"Karen" or "Becky" are not sexist or racist nor are the equivalent to any racial pejoratives

[Shadow Wolf]

400 pound with two kids? OMG how?

Assuming MidWest, lots of gravy, corn, pork, breads, potatoes, lots of starches, lots of fats, lots of fried, and not much exercise.
Almost what you'd think a farmer a couple hundred years ago might eat to have the energy to hand plow the field with a horse, but being consumed by people who may at most stand in front of a machine all day.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'd just prefer an ol' fashioned "*****."
And, I would say atheist has had a fairly decent amount of success, as it did also use to imply, per the definition, immorality and indecency. And not all that long ago you didn't even want to be called a heterosexual, because that was a pervy thing.
But, personally, I think using names is crude. Like using Ralph to mean vomit.

Eh. Using names is amateur if I’m honest.
Try rhyming slang.
“After I go across the frog and toad, to visit my friend who is a to and from, I’ll likely have to take the Jim Jar to the shops. I have to buy some Bob Hope for me mum and hopefully some Oily Rags for me and me China Plates.
The owner thinks I tell porkies and will half inch his stock. But I always have enough bread and honey.”
Translation,
After I go across the road to my Pom (British) friend, I’ll have to take the car to the shops. I have to buy my mum some soap and some cigarettes for my friends and I. The owner thinks I tell lies and will steal his stock, but I always have enough money.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

To the point where even “reclaimed” slurs are iffy at best.

I just had this conversation on another forum for black men and I detest the usage of the word c**n (think of Racoon which was used as a pejorative for black folks in the 30s). Of course, I was met with backlash but I questioned how you can use a historical racist term towards other black folks? Sometimes the logic of some of my community brethren perplexes even me. If you think I'm insufferable here, you should see me when I go in on my community.

 

[SomeRandom]

I just had this conversation on another forum for black men and I detest the usage of the word c**n (think of Racoon which was used as a pejorative for black folks in the 30s). Of course, I was met with backlash but I questioned how you can use a historical racist term towards other black folks? Sometimes the logic of some of my community brethren perplexes even me. If you think I'm insufferable here, you should see me when I go in on my community.

I like to call it denial. Like being mixed race I sometimes just want to forget about the colonial hangover. It’s 2021, we have bigger fish to fry. I only really have a vague idea of race relations and it’s mostly in the context of history classes and news of race riots. In my personal life I rarely if ever experienced any actual racism. It was like never a thing that ever entered my mind. My friends and family have a broad mixed background, so it never really affected me up close, I guess.
I think I’m too far removed to be objective. But then I have to remind myself that everyone’s experiences are different and it’s important to actually deal with our baggage instead of just burying my head in the sand. Ignorance may be bliss but it never solves anything

 

[Epic Beard Man]

So, do you need that gel stuff replaced like on Robot Chicken? Do your bones break when hit or do you get an imprint of the object that slowly fades out? Does stretching like that hurt?.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I like to call it denial. Like being mixed race I sometimes just want to forget about the colonial hangover.

I hear you, I also. Unfortunately, even in the progressive liberal state of California, you're reminded of who you are even in the professional sector. I'll admit at times I force myself to stay within my own section such as the black community because I've noticed especially the last time I hung with a diverse group discussion about race or racism especially what a white person, or a Hispanic person, or Asian person can and cannot say to a black person. I get tired of it and those experiences just force me to stick with my own group just to avoid the nonsense. But then when I do hang with my folks, I hear the same ole song and dance so I get quite annoyed there.

It’s 2021, we have bigger fish to fry.

For me, racism is as important of an issue as any. Because we still live in a society where residual elements of racism still exist in various systems in our society, it is important to discuss these issues. It is also important for future generations to know so that they can be the catalyst for change. In order for human beings to be a complete species, we need to eliminate any element within the system that explicitly and implicitly creates disparities that fosters racism. This is the whole point of the thread. We need to foster an environment where the misuse of emergency services to exaggerate a social issue that is solvable must be admonished. So long as we allow this behavior of"Karenism" to persist, we allow this behavior to germinate in our society which allows both racism and sexism to persist. I say sexism because we are hurting women indirectly by allowing them to weaponize victimhood where there is no victim. We are conditioning women to stay in a perpetual state of victimhood by taking their autonomy away by fostering the psychopathology that women are incapable of taking responsibility.

I only really have a vague idea of race relations and it’s mostly in the context of history classes and news of race riots. In my personal life I rarely if ever experienced any actual racism. It was like never a thing that ever entered my mind. My friends and family have a broad mixed background, so it never really affected me up close, I guess.
I think I’m too far removed to be objective. But then I have to remind myself that everyone’s experiences are different and it’s important to actually deal with our baggage instead of just burying my head in the sand. Ignorance may be bliss but it never solves anything

Believe it or not, your experiences although positive in the sense that you haven't experienced any explicit racism can also be negative in the sense of empathizing with the experiences of others who do in fact experiences racism and or are the victims of a "Karen." That is not to say you are without empathy, it just means that you may not have the complete understanding of someone who has gone through something you lack experience in.

 

[SomeRandom]

I hear you, I also. Unfortunately, even in the progressive liberal state of California, you're reminded of who you are even in the professional sector. I'll admit at times I force myself to stay within my own section such as the black community because I've noticed especially the last time I hung with a diverse group discussion about race or racism especially what a white person, or a Hispanic person, or Asian person can and cannot say to a black person. I get tired of it and those experiences just force me to stick with my own group just to avoid the nonsense. But then when I do hang with my folks, I hear the same ole song and dance so I get quite annoyed there.

Hmm. I guess being mixed race, whilst I did grow up in two differing communities, I also grew up in a merged one. So it was just normal for me to hang out with either or communities. I’m pretty fluid in that sense, I guess.

For me, racism is as important of an issue as any. Because we still live in a society where residual elements of racism still exist in various systems in our society, it is important to discuss these issues. It is also important for future generations to know so that they can be the catalyst for change. In order for human beings to be a complete species, we need to eliminate any element within the system that explicitly and implicitly creates disparities that fosters racism. This is the whole point of the thread. We need to foster an environment where the misuse of emergency services to exaggerate a social issue that is solvable must be admonished. So long as we allow this behavior of"Karenism" to persist, we allow this behavior to germinate in our society which allows both racism and sexism to persist. I say sexism because we are hurting women indirectly by allowing them to weaponize victimhood where there is no victim. We are conditioning women to stay in a perpetual state of victimhood by taking their autonomy away by fostering the psychopathology that women are incapable of taking responsibility.

I agree.

Believe it or not, your experiences although positive in the sense that you haven't experienced any explicit racism can also be negative in the sense of empathizing with the experiences of others who do in fact experiences racism and or are the victims of a "Karen." That is not to say you are without empathy, it just means that you may not have the complete understanding of someone who has gone through something you lack experience in.

Possibly. It’s like I want us to move forward. To move on and we just can’t seem to. Which makes me sad.
And it’s often like both sides are speaking past each other.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Possibly. It’s like I want us to move forward. To move on and we just can’t seem to. Which makes me sad.
And it’s often like both sides are speaking past each other.

I'm a huge Star Trek fan and so I'm sorry to tell you that the dream you're speaking of won't happen until we actually fly through space as common as we drive cars. We won't be physically here to see that come to fruition.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm a huge Star Trek fan and so I'm sorry to tell you that the dream you're speaking of won't happen until we actually fly through space as common as we drive cars. We won't be physically here to see that come to fruition.

Oh I know. I grew up around educators. So I learnt all about the ugly side of humanity through their drunken (but still oddly eloquent) rants, trust me lol
I even fell into a toxic mindset myself a few years back. When I was angry at the world.
But we have to take it one step at a time, otherwise we’ll never get there. Not even when we get robots and flying cars

 

[Twilight Hue]

Now imagine if we created a name like 'Latisha' for black women that wanted to falsely blame their life's altercations on white people?

Better still. "Keisha"

It's the 'K' I think that's the special magical ingredient for making a good pejorative term out of a popular and common proper noun.

 

[Augustus]

I liken it to “Karen” being a mild insult whereas slurs are deeply and inherently derogatory in nature.

While I completely agree with this, there are a couple of problems I see with the social consequences of using the term:

1) It creates a double standard which will always make something problematic in mass human society. When people are told that negative racial and gender stereotypes are unacceptable except when 'we' decide that they are not, regardless of whether or not it is morally justifiable, this damages the idea that negative gender and ethnic stereotypes are unacceptable.

2) It will have the consequence of shutting women up (note Karen is far more widely used than the male equivalent). Not then actual 'Karens' who tend to be entitled and completely lacking in self-awareness, but normal, particularly liberal women, who have legitimate complaints but '"said nothing as I just don't want to be a Karen".

I can understand the hesitation. Unfortunately, the social backlash is the result of abusing emergency services and making mountains out of molehills. The irony of it all is if I complain I'm the angry black man if the pitch or tone of my voice is slightly elevated.

Interesting that you note how a negative stereotype based on demographic characteristics can affect you and cause you to be reticent in speaking your mind, but justify a negative stereotype affecting other innocent parties in a similar manner because 'they deserve it' based on their demographic characteristics.

 

[SomeRandom]

While I completely agree with this, there are a couple of problems I see with the social consequences of using the term:

1) It creates a double standard which will always make something problematic in mass human society. When people are told that negative racial and gender stereotypes are unacceptable except when 'we' decide that they are not, regardless of whether or not it is morally justifiable, this damages the idea that negative gender and ethnic stereotypes are unacceptable.

I think the term may have the potential in becoming a slur in the future. Right now though it’s mild enough that I think such worrying is overkill. White stereotypes are still not as disparaging as black stereotypes. Sorry that’s just reality. But talk to me in a century or two. I mean slurs started out as benign words in their culture, I’m sure. Or perhaps not, I’m not sure. You tell me

2) It will have the consequence of shutting women up (note Karen is far more widely used than the male equivalent). Not then actual 'Karens' who tend to be entitled and completely lacking in self-awareness, but normal, particularly liberal women, who have legitimate complaints but '"said nothing as I just don't want to be a Karen".

I am a woman. And I know more than a few women named Karen. We’re stronger than you think.

Interesting that you note how a negative stereotype based on demographic characteristics can affect you and cause you to be reticent in speaking your mind, but justify a negative stereotype affecting other innocent parties in a similar manner because 'they deserve it' based on their demographic characteristics.

Is it based on a judgement on her skin colour alone? Disregarding the many differing factors a person has? Class? Drug addiction?
Because racial slurs don’t really care. It categorises all women as being in the same class, same addiction, same assumptions about their lifestyle based solely on their race. Same with men, only with a thug/gangster stereotype. One that ends up dead due to macho idiocy
Does “Karen” fill the same criteria? And on top of that to the same disparaging degree?
Last I checked “Karen” referred to an upper class white woman bored with her existence more than anything else.
Yeah so is it the same as comparing black men and women to monkeys or lesser “beasts”?
(I’m being sarcastic with that last remark guys.)
Because that is the implication of all racial slurs. So please tell me how a disparaging term used primarily for a disgruntled shopper is anywhere near such a judgment of people being closer to beasts than human beings. I’m genuinely curious

 

[Twilight Hue]

While I completely agree with this, there are a couple of problems I see with the social consequences of using the term:

1) It creates a double standard which will always make something problematic in mass human society. When people are told that negative racial and gender stereotypes are unacceptable except when 'we' decide that they are not, regardless of whether or not it is morally justifiable, this damages the idea that negative gender and ethnic stereotypes are unacceptable.

2) It will have the consequence of shutting women up (note Karen is far more widely used than the male equivalent). Not then actual 'Karens' who tend to be entitled and completely lacking in self-awareness, but normal, particularly liberal women, who have legitimate complaints but '"said nothing as I just don't want to be a Karen".



Interesting that you note how a negative stereotype based on demographic characteristics can affect you and cause you to be reticent in speaking your mind, but justify a negative stereotype affecting other innocent parties in a similar manner because 'they deserve it' based on their demographic characteristics.

The taking of harmless names and making them into stereotypes seems to be a fad with the current generation. Best way is to ignore them and dismiss the implications of using terms like Karen or whatever. It's more a reflection on them than anything else.

It's too ridiculous to take it seriously anyways.

Mostly because Karen is an awesome name!

 

[Augustus]

I think the term may have the potential in becoming a slur in the future. Right now though it’s mild enough that I think such worrying is overkill. White stereotypes are still not as disparaging as black stereotypes. Sorry that’s just reality. But talk to me in a century or two. I mean slurs started out as benign words in their culture, I’m sure. Or perhaps not, I’m not sure. You tell me

I completely agree that it is not the same as anti-black stereotypes. I'm not remotely offended by the term, whereas, understandably, most black people would be offended by anti-black stereotypes. I understand the social and historical reasons behind this. That was not the point.

Regardless of this, or whether you can make a logical case on this point, collective human psychology doesn't work like that.

Many people will perceive it as a double standard, and among such people you weaken the idea that negative ethnic stereotypes are unacceptable.

I am a woman. And I know more than a few women named Karen. We’re stronger than you think.

It's nothing about women being weak, just a basic aspect of the human character.

Some humans are very self-conscious and susceptible to social pressure. Some of these people are women, some are male.

It's just that 'Karen' is far more common than 'Ken' because of societal bias.

Is it based on a judgement on her skin colour alone? Disregarding the many differing factors a person has? Class? Drug addiction?
Because racial slurs don’t really care. It categorises all women as being in the same class, same addiction, same assumptions about their lifestyle based solely on their race. Same with men, only with a thug/gangster stereotype. One that ends up dead due to macho idiocy
Does “Karen” fill the same criteria? And on top of that to the same disparaging degree?
Last I checked “Karen” referred to an upper class white woman bored with her existence more than anything else.
Yeah so is it the same as comparing black men and women to monkeys or lesser “beasts”?
(I’m being sarcastic with that last remark guys.)
Because that is the implication of all racial slurs. So please tell me how a disparaging term used primarily for a disgruntled shopper is anywhere near such a judgment of people being closer to beasts than human beings. I’m genuinely curious

Again, I completely agreed with you that they are not the same at the start of my post.

As I said, it is not the actual "Karens' who will be negatively impacted as they lack the self-awareness to care. It will have the effect of making some well meaning white women self-conscious about complaining, even with good reason.

That's just the way things work. Some people are very self-conscious about being seen a particular light.

 

[Shakeel]

most specifically the western world listens and believ

Is it better if she won't say anything because no one will believe her anyway? Do you really want to take to the other direction? Why shame white women for being treated well? Is it that if everyone isn't treated that way they shouldn't be either? That's not how the world works. There is no equality or perfect justice. It's apparent you have some old bitterness to deal with. You shouldn't blame it on all white women.

Anything can be racist. It depends on the situation. Suffice to say, using such words shows a lack of sophistication and tact. Fat shaming is also distasteful.

 

[Shakeel]

Now imagine if we created a name like 'Latisha' for black women that wanted to falsely blame their life's altercations on white people?

That would be so racist.

 

[Shakeel]

I think it is more coincidental than intentional. I get it that those are your friends but what should bug you more is the historical truth that in this country, innocent people were falsely accused and died.

People tend to care more about their friends than the historical truths you find relevant. And can't one care about both? It's unfair to make a joke of someone's name. They can suffer greatly because people are too dumb to use multiple words to describe a situation. Instead they have to have one word to say it all - often ending up falsely accusing a decent person trying to do a decent thing.

 

[Shakeel]

I can understand the hesitation. Unfortunately, the social backlash is the result of abusing emergency services and making mountains out of molehills. The irony of it all is if I complain I'm the angry black man if the pitch or tone of my voice is slightly elevated.

Angry black man, angry white woman.. It's just an adjective. It's normal to assume that a person who raises their voice is angry. If you don't want to be seen as angry, don't raise your voice. Or maybe don't complain so much.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Interesting that you note how a negative stereotype based on demographic characteristics can affect you and cause you to be reticent in speaking your mind, but justify a negative stereotype affecting other innocent parties in a similar manner because 'they deserve it' based on their demographic characteristics.

Like I said in the other thread, you seem to like to disagree just to disagree. But pray tell who are the other "innocent" parties to whom I'm making any negative justifications for?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

People tend to care more about their friends than the historical truths you find relevant. And can't one care about both? It's unfair to make a joke of someone's name. They can suffer greatly because people are too dumb to use multiple words to describe a situation. Instead they have to have one word to say it all - often ending up falsely accusing a decent person trying to do a decent thing.

Making a joke about someone's name pales in comparison to making a false allegation that costs the life of an innocent person.

Let me ask you what is more tragic this?

Spoiler: Graphic Picture Viewer Discretion Advised

Spoiler: Emmett Till's Mother

or This?