Koran dated to before Muhamad birth.

[SuperScript22]

You mean YOU don't know. Some of us actually do know.

No I think we don't know, granted I see where atheists are coming from, specially in the case of life after death because I'm almost inclined to think that death is probably the state of before birth, but then again no one has died for a good period and came back to tell the tale. You do hear of reports of near death experiences or even people that were actually dead and came back to life but you get mixed results, some claim that they saw hell, others say they saw heaven with a specific religious figure, others say they saw nothing, and others say they saw family, the point is science has not proven or dis-proven that whether these are real experiences or just the power of our brains.

Its deeper then that brother.

Originally a prophet was just someone who spoke for god, his mouthpiece so to speak, it had nothing to do with telling the future. That is a modern interpretation.

There is very few passages dealing with the future, and of those you often find contradicting text.


Maybe the Koran expanded on that and added what they wish, its not my favorite book of study.

The point is the passages that deal with the future tend to be precise in cases where the events takes place in the life cycle of the book (God telling the people something will happen in one chapter, then a few chapters later that exact thing happens). But in cases where modern religious people try to fit to future events outside of the book, such prophecies are vague that they require some sort of interpretation, in fact some are so vague that they should be dismissed all together. I find it very unusual that God is able to be precise with future events that happen in the life of the book, then be so vague in the future that happens after the book.

 

[FearGod]

The Jews had survived for over a thousand years prior to Islam and were a resilient and influential people that were always targeted. Mind you I would be more impressed if he said specific Christian nations would rise up and be the most powerful in the future such as USA, Russia, UK, Germany, etc.

Do you think that Christians are controlling the west ? i think the holy book knows more than you do

Make some research and you'll know the truth.

The Jews were already scattered during that time, most importantly these are notes from the Bible (Jews being scattered by God and that one day the land of Israel would be returned to them), now go ahead and prove to me that Muhammad did not take this from the Bible.

I believe also that the bible is a holy book, i have no problem with that.

It's not a prophecy if it's not direct and straight forward, vague prophecies in such texts are easy to accomplish and there's nothing impressive about them. Here's what I would consider a real prophecy (Imaging we're living in 1990):

"Germany will beat Argentina in the finals of the 2014 world cup by the score of 1-0"

Here's a vague prophecy:

"Germany will be a tough team that will have a good chance in winning the world cup in the future"

Granted I would want more than one direct prophecy to eliminate luck, but still, the accuracy of the first prophecy is significant. That's not the kind of prophecy you have in the book, you have a lot of the second type of prophecy, which is vague and may or may not happen, and if it does happen it could be interpreted in different ways.

If one don't want to believe whatever evidence you'll bring will be denied, believe me.

 

[Shad]

Compare the world before the 7th century and after it, the world changed rapidly towards civilization which can never be achieved
with the barbarian world of that era.

Pure nonsense. The Tang Dynasty was in a Golden Age above that of the Islamic Empires at the time. Which started 8 years after the first part of the Quran was "revaled" thus set a level of civilization above and before that of Islam. Islam's political ideology didn't start for 12 years later and was not complete until decades after his death. Your grasp of history not related it Islam is flawed.

 

[Shad]

Do you think that Christians are controlling the west ? i think the holy book knows more than you do

Make some research and you'll know the truth.

I believe also that the bible is a holy book, i have no problem with that.



If one don't want to believe whatever evidence you'll bring will be denied, believe me.

Random Youtube videos are not research. Enroll in a university or collage so you can learn how to do and what research actually is. Here is a hint, its not the search function of Google.

 

[Shad]

Reading the history without being biased will help in understanding what kind of man he was.
Enough to me that he ended the killing of the female babies which were practiced in the barbarian world of that era.

Says the believer in the religion that idolizes the very figure in question. Hilarious.

 

[FearGod]

Pure nonsense. The Tang Dynasty was in a Golden Age above that of the Islamic Empires at the time. Which started 8 years after the first part of the Quran was "revaled" thus set a level of civilization above and before that of Islam. Islam's political ideology didn't start for 12 years later and was not complete until decades after his death. Your grasp of history not related it Islam is flawed.

What are the names of the known scientists during the Tang Dynasty and what their effect in the world at that period of time ?

 

[FearGod]

Random Youtube videos are not research. Enroll in a university or collage so you can learn how to do and what research actually is. Here is a hint, its not the search function of Google.

Did i say that the youtube is a research tool ?

 

[SuperScript22]

Do you think that Christians are controlling the west ? i think the holy book knows more than you do

Make some research and you'll know the truth.

Ohh yes, the "Jews control the world" argument LOL......

Listen, I do believe that there's a group of people that controls world events and are usually operating behind closed doors, but this has nothing to do with the Jewish people. Some of these powerful individuals may be Jewish and some may be not, but to label Jews in general as the controllers of the world is pretty absurd in my book. Ohh and I should rephrase that I "believe" this is the case, because neither I nor you can prove such allegations. But I can almost guarantee that your local kosher butcher shop owner has nothing to do with controlling the world.

I believe also that the bible is a holy book, i have no problem with that.

I'm not asking you if you have a problem with it or not, you mentioned that the Quran mentions this about Jewish people and I implied that this was already recorded in the Bible and perhaps Muhammad just copied it.

If one don't want to believe whatever evidence you'll bring will be denied, believe me.

But you did not bring any evidence, what sets you apart from other religions? I honestly don't see the uniqueness that makes your faith "truth" and all other faith "blind", granted all faith should be considered blind but you're obviously having a hard time accepting that concept.

 

[SuperScript22]

What are the names of the known scientists during the Tang Dynasty and what their effect in the world at that period of time ?

Btw, can you enlighten us on how the world was in a barbarian state prior to the 7th century and how all of the sudden it came to the age of light after that? I don't mean to keep barking at your tree but your comments are very typical of someone who has been brainwashed by their religion.

 

[Shad]

Did i say that the youtube is a research tool ?

Your linking a video is enough, you do not need to say it when your "research" is followed directly by a YT video. You have issues with comprehension.

What are the names of the known scientists during the Tang Dynasty and what their effect in the world at that period of time ?

Go research the Tang dynasty if you want to learn. However one example is Zhen Qian's discovered treatment for diabetes using thyroid extract. It is still a form of treatment today. Gun powders use in weapons was developed during the Tang dynasty in simple grenades.

 

[FearGod]

Ohh yes, the "Jews control the world" argument LOL......

Listen, I do believe that there's a group of people that controls world events and are usually operating behind closed doors, but this has nothing to do with the Jewish people. Some of these powerful individuals may be Jewish and some may be not, but to label Jews in general as the controllers of the world is pretty absurd in my book. Ohh and I should rephrase that I "believe" this is the case, because neither I nor you can prove such allegations. But I can almost guarantee that your local kosher butcher shop owner has nothing to do with controlling the world.

As i said to you the holy book knows better than you do.

I'm not asking you if you have a problem with it or not, you mentioned that the Quran mentions this about Jewish people and I implied that this was already recorded in the Bible and perhaps Muhammad just copied it.

As the quran confirmed the same thing then it means that both were correct about such major event.

But you did not bring any evidence, what sets you apart from other religions? I honestly don't see the uniqueness that makes your faith "truth" and all other faith "blind", granted all faith should be considered blind but you're obviously having a hard time accepting that concept.

That is how i based my belief which of course doesn't mean that every one should do the same as i do, but i'm happy in choosing my own way of life and i wish you the happiness for your own way of life.

 

[Shad]

As the quran confirmed the same thing then it means that both were correct about such major event.

Or it is repeating known ideas rather than confirming anything. The fact that you jump to the conclusion which supports your religion without even considering other possibilities shows you have a bias that renders most of what you say as worthless religious rhetoric.

 

[FearGod]

Your linking a video is enough, you do not need to say it when your "research" is followed directly by a YT video. You have issues with comprehension.

I said to him research, that doesn't mean the youtube is the one to research otherwise why asking him to research, not hard to understand, what next

Go research the Tang dynasty if you want to learn. However one example is Zhen Qian's discovered treatment for diabetes using thyroid extract. It is still a form of treatment today. Gun powders use in weapons was developed during the Tang dynasty in simple grenades.

 

[FearGod]

Or it is repeating known ideas rather than confirming anything. The fact that you jump to the conclusion which supports your religion without even considering other possibilities shows you have a bias that renders most of what you say as worthless religious rhetoric.

Yes repeating the same prophecy doesn't mean confirming it, what.....

 

[SuperScript22]

As i said to you the holy book knows better than you do.

That's not an answer to the argument.

As the quran confirmed the same thing then it means that both were correct about such major event.

Or it could be that the Quran is simply a book with borrowed ideas and stories from the Bible (Which also borrows stories and ideas from other ancient religions btw). The whole thing with Israel being given to the Jews is actually something that the Bible talks about through all periods since it's looked at as a promised land, but ever question why many religious Jews are against the existence of Israel today? I'll let you figure that one out on your own.

That is how i based my belief which of course doesn't mean that every one should do the same as i do, but i'm happy in choosing my own way of life and i wish you the happiness for your own way of life.

That's a fair assessment, the main point is not to confuse belief with facts.

 

[FearGod]

That's not an answer to the argument.

What is fact to me isn't fact to you, negative argument

http://www.rense.com/general59/sdom.htm

Or it could be that the Quran is simply a book with borrowed ideas and stories from the Bible (Which also borrows stories and ideas from other ancient religions btw). The whole thing with Israel being given to the Jews is actually something that the Bible talks about through all periods since it's looked at as a promised land, but ever question why many religious Jews are against the existence of Israel today? I'll let you figure that one out on your own.

Yes you can believe that the quran borrowed the prophecy from the bible whereas i believe both were talking about the same reality.

That's a fair assessment, the main point is not to confuse belief with facts.

For me it is based on what i believe it to be facts which doesn't mean that you should believe the same as i do.
You maybe right, maybe i'm right, maybe both of us are wrong.

 

[SuperScript22]

What is fact to me isn't fact to you, negative argument

http://www.rense.com/general59/sdom.htm

That seems very clear, I want actual sources and evidence, you're not so strict with such and tend to be more selective so long as it suits your religious belief.

Yes you can believe that the quran borrowed the prophecy from the bible whereas i believe both were talking about the same reality.

Ok, but you were just using the whole land of Israel thing and Jews being scattered as a Quranic prophecy when I just made it clear that it's a Biblical prophecy.

You maybe right, maybe i'm right, maybe both of us are wrong.

If you truly agree with this statement, then that makes you an agnostic.

 

[Shad]

I said to him research, that doesn't mean the youtube is the one to research otherwise why asking him to research, not hard to understand, what next

You unwillingness to do your own research is not an argument but admitting you are either willfully ignorant, incompetent or lazy.

You told him to research then proceeded to link a video supporting your tinfoil hat nonsense. Not my problem you are clueless on what proper research is. I guess going to a library is asking too much from you.

Yes repeating the same prophecy doesn't mean confirming it, what.....

If I repeat E=MC2 am I confirming anything? Nope. I am repeating knowledge which is already known. I would have to do some work to confirm it. You can not figure out the difference between repeating and confirming which is an language issue you have. Try again.

 

[FearGod]

That seems very clear, I want actual sources and evidence, you're not so strict with such and tend to be more selective so long as it suits your religious belief.

Yes i know.

Ok, but you were just using the whole land of Israel thing and Jews being scattered as a Quranic prophecy when I just made it clear that it's a Biblical prophecy.

I believe the bible is a holy book, similar to the torah and the bible

If you truly agree with this statement, then that makes you an agnostic.

You can think me so but i ain't.

 

[SuperScript22]

I believe the bible is a holy book, similar to the torah and the bible

The Torah is part of the Bible, and also since we're on that subject you cannot use the Bible as a source because you believe it's a corrupted book.