Lack of belief in gods.

[Guy Threepwood]

If that was too long for you to read, then you are not worth my time.

C'mon don't give up so easy, if spontanoeus universe creating mechanisms are not an arbitrary probability, how probable are they? how did you calculate the odds? I'm curious

 

[Jeremiahcp]

C'mon don't give up so easy, if spontanoeus universe creating mechanisms are not an arbitrary probability, how probable are they? how did you calculate the odds? I'm curious

"C'mon don't give up so easy"

TLDR

 

[Guy Threepwood]

TSDR

 

[Thumper]

TLDR

But please summarize for me, what odds did you calculate for the multiverse existing, or any other spontaneous unguided mechanism?

As far as we know right now 1:1. Any other inference would be making stuff up.

 

[Thief]

But "one or the other" isn't the logic.

of course it is.....

follow science to the 'point'....
science can go no further.....but....you can

the item in front of you would be the primordial singularity
motionless
timeless
no equation will work for you
no petri dish to hold it
no light...no shadow
no heat...no cold
nothing

the void.......

motion has a rule
the item in front of you will remain as is until
Something moves it

wanna give that a 'snap'?

 

[Thief]

did someone say....probability?

Chaos has been raised to a science
(I saw the documentary)

and when it comes to all of the little things lining up just right......
Man is not probable
not even likely

long shot

very long shot

seems there may have been some......tweeking

 

[Thumper]

...
motion has a rule
the item in front of you will remain as is until
Something moves it
wanna give that a 'snap'?

That "rule" may or may not be true for quantum states.

But, be that as it may, you claim to know that "Something moves it", but all I have is your word for that and no reason to just accept your word as the answer for anything. You further claim that this "something" is "spirit". Yet you have never provided any evidence that "spirit" actually exists or even has meaning outside of your mythology.

Your words are meaningless to anyone but you and your argument is empty.

 

[Thief]

That "rule" may or may not be true for quantum states.

But, be that as it may, you claim to know that "Something moves it", but all I have is your word for that and no reason to just accept your word as the answer for anything. You further claim that this "something" is "spirit". Yet you have never provided any evidence that "spirit" actually exists or even has meaning outside of your mythology.

Your words are meaningless to anyone but you and your argument is empty.

science gives the reason.....
it's a law of motion

you must deny the law.....then you can have your say
as you please

 

[Thumper]

science gives the reason.....
it's a law of motion

you must deny the law.....then you can have your say
as you please

You are confusing Newton's 2nd law of motion with causality as used in physics. Quantum mechanics has shown that cause-and-effect are not inviolate.

But more to the point, you are attempting to argue for an "uncaused cause" which is also known as the cosmological argument (or the more modern Kalam cosmological argument). All of which have been thoroughly refuted. It's a tired old argument, please go do your own research on this.

 

[Thief]

You are confusing Newton's 2nd law of motion with causality as used in physics. Quantum mechanics has shown that cause-and-effect are not inviolate.

But more to the point, you are attempting to argue for an "uncaused cause" which is also known as the cosmological argument (or the more modern Kalam cosmological argument). All of which have been thoroughly refuted. It's a tired old argument, please go do your own research on this.

or you could make that choice and we continue....
Spirit first?
or substance?

 

[Willamena]

of course it is.....

follow science to the 'point'....
science can go no further.....but....you can

the item in front of you would be the primordial singularity
motionless
timeless
no equation will work for you
no petri dish to hold it
no light...no shadow
no heat...no cold
nothing

the void.......

motion has a rule
the item in front of you will remain as is until
Something moves it

wanna give that a 'snap'?

You present a false dichotomy: there are many more options than "Spirit before matter, or matter before Spirit."

Putting aside that I have no idea what a "singularity" is, it apparently occurs at some point in the past. Therefore, it could not possibly be representative of the figurative "creation" which is eternal, fundamental, and imminently unfolding.

 

[Thumper]

or you could make that choice and we continue....
Spirit first?
or substance?

As noted in post #527 --

you have never provided any evidence that "spirit" actually exists or even has meaning outside of your mythology. Your words are meaningless to anyone but you and your argument is empty.

 

[Thief]

As noted in post #527 --

you have never provided any evidence that "spirit" actually exists or even has meaning outside of your mythology. Your words are meaningless to anyone but you and your argument is empty.

that was rebutted earlier.....

the choice remains

 

[Thief]

You present a false dichotomy: there are many more options than "Spirit before matter, or matter before Spirit."

Putting aside that I have no idea what a "singularity" is, it apparently occurs at some point in the past. Therefore, it could not possibly be representative of the figurative "creation" which is eternal, fundamental, and imminently unfolding.

at the point of creation.......
Spirit first.
substance is not of it's own hand

all of motion had a beginning
start there

 

[Vaderecta]

yeah....I tend to be redundant
in the face of denial

so.....have you made the choice?
Spirit first?....or substance?

consequence pending

You didn't answer anything. Spirit first! What is spirit? How does it differ from substance? I encourage spiritual references. Many times people that meditate who have never done so before run into their own personal spiritual experience but then you pop up and say you had a spiritual experience? I know what it is because I had a spiritual experience and what I experienced must be what you experienced and I will tell you how powerful my experience was and try to convince you that my experience explains your experience...

But you do not. Everyone has the capacity to have a what you call a Spiritual experience but they are better source of information to explain their experience and I wonder why you want to subvert that experience as something you are a trusted source of guidance of?

You asked have I made a choice? Yes. I accept the substance argument but do not deny people have spiritual experiences.

 

[Thief]

You didn't answer anything. Spirit first! What is spirit? How does it differ from substance?
You asked have I made a choice? Yes. I accept the substance argument but do not deny people have spiritual experiences.

then all of life is substance to you
and the end of your chemistry is pending with no hope of continuance

it's not a matter of religion
it's not a matter of practice

if life is substance ...you are just moving to death

Spirit first
as Creator

substance as creation

Cause and effect

 

[Vaderecta]

then all of life is substance to you
and the end of your chemistry is pending with no hope of continuance

it's not a matter of religion
it's not a matter of practice

if life is substance ...you are just moving to death

Spirit first
as Creator

substance as creation

Cause and effect

I am not sure that post makes sense. We are made of cells and as cells divide they use up material so much so that eventually the material they use is themselves which causes errors and eventually ceases cell division resulting in death. (Its very unlikely though IMHO that anyone will die from this but it does happen, I think we die from many other easily preventable reasons)

In any event you are starting with an idea of a creator and your existence as some ode to this creator and depending on your results you will be rewarded or whatever.

Ironically you were created by your mom and dad and if they are very specific people involved in gene research with extensive medical training they may be able to prevent your death long enough for another human to come along and discover the next miracle to further extend your life perhaps for many centuries. That is not absolutely science fiction at this point.

 

[Thief]

I am not sure that post makes sense. We are made of cells and as cells divide they use up material so much so that eventually the material they use is themselves which causes errors and eventually ceases cell division resulting in death. (Its very unlikely though IMHO that anyone will die from this but it does happen, I think we die from many other easily preventable reasons)

In any event you are starting with an idea of a creator and your existence as some ode to this creator and depending on your results you will be rewarded or whatever.

Ironically you were created by your mom and dad and if they are very specific people involved in gene research with extensive medical training they may be able to prevent your death long enough for another human to come along and discover the next miracle to further extend your life perhaps for many centuries. That is not absolutely science fiction at this point.

not much point in the formation of a body....that in turn forms a spirit
and then have the whole thing end up in the ground

Man was formed.....to form spirit
the design
is obvious

 

[Vaderecta]

not much point in the formation of a body....that in turn forms a spirit
and then have the whole thing end up in the ground

Man was formed.....to form spirit
the design
is obvious

What is a spirit in your mind?

 

[Thief]

What is a spirit in your mind?

it's that part of you that will respond to this post