Lack of free will & morality

[LuisDantas]

But how did you come to that conclusion? It seems more like a preference than an objective truth to me.

Why, of course it is a preference. It is also objective, as it must be. True subjective morality would be utterly meaningless and pointless.


But what on Earth would an objective truth be? Nothing that exists in the real world, I would think. Objective truths are things like mathematical formulas, whose very power comes from renouncing any responsibility towards the real world.


It seems to me that some reflection on the nature of moral choices is necessary at this point.

Morality is a function of rationality and behavior. It just can't exist otherwise. It is built of and limited by sentient beings' ability to perceive reality and act on it. It involves dealing with both uncertainty and the understanding of the likely results of actions and omissions.

To put it in another way, the space of existence of morality resides between uncertainty and prediction. Morality is unnecessary when there is certainty, and it is impossible when there is no ability to predict outcomes. It is the discipline of using choices in order to decide how choices must be restricted.

 

[EverChanging]

Why, of course it is a preference. It is also objective, as it must be. True subjective morality would be utterly meaningless and pointless.


But what on Earth would an objective truth be? Nothing that exists in the real world, I would think. Objective truths are things like mathematical formulas, whose very power comes from renouncing any responsibility towards the real world.


It seems to me that some reflection on the nature of moral choices is necessary at this point.

Morality is a function of rationality and behavior. It just can't exist otherwise. It is built of and limited by sentient beings' ability to perceive reality and act on it. It involves dealing with both uncertainty and the understanding of the likely results of actions and omissions.

To put it in another way, the space of existence of morality resides between uncertainty and prediction. Morality is unnecessary when there is certainty, and it is impossible when there is no ability to predict outcomes. It is the discipline of using choices in order to decide how choices must be restricted.

What do you mean when you say a preference to avoid suffering is objective?

 

[LuisDantas]

What do you mean when you say a preference to avoid suffering is objective?

It is the logical consequence of acknowledgment that well-being is to be pursued.

 

[EverChanging]

It is the logical consequence of acknowledgment that well-being is to be pursued.

But why?

 

[LuisDantas]

But why?

Do you see any other possible conclusion?

 

[EverChanging]

Do you see any other possible conclusion?

What I mean is why should well being be pursued? How is that an objective truth?

 

[LuisDantas]

What I mean is why should well being be pursued? How is that an objective truth?

It comes from the definitions of the terms.

Am I missing some sort of catch?

 

[EverChanging]

It comes from the definitions of the terms.

Am I missing some sort of catch?

How do you conclude that valuing wellbeing is grounded in truth rather than being a mere preference and nothing more?

 

[LuisDantas]

How do you conclude that valuing wellbeing is grounded in truth rather than being a mere preference and nothing more?

Well being heals hurt. Is that not true?

 

[EverChanging]

Well being heals hurt. Is that not true?

Yes, but I am skeptical any "should's" or "should not's" can be derived from that which are not grounded merely in preference and nothing else, and at times preferences and values conflict between people or in one person.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes, but I am skeptical any "should's" or "should not's" can be derived from that which are not grounded merely in preference and nothing else, and at times preferences and values conflict between people or in one person.

"Shoulds" and "should nots" are rules for how humans are to act around and with other humans. That means that human preferences have to be taken into account. In fact, morality itself is just a preference: we prefer you act a certain way because it leads to human well-being.

 

[EverChanging]

"Shoulds" and "should nots" are rules for how humans are to act around and with other humans. That means that human preferences have to be taken into account. In fact, morality itself is just a preference: we prefer you act a certain way because it leads to human well-being.

That is what I tend to think.