Landslide? Trump Won With Only 1.6% Margin Among Voters

[The Hammer]

They really need to learn to play hardball.

I hope they do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I hope they do.

At this point I'm not hopeful. They're too nice and won't even flex a muscle to undue some advantages Reps have gave themselves.
Like the Supreme Court. There's no reason Biden shouldn't have tweaked it to undue the American Taliban Conservative majority on it and make it difficult for his predecessors to undue it. The number isn't set in stone, it has been changed before. Thompson even escaped his brazen hypocrisy and unethical practices unscathed.
Don't be surprised if Trump tries to add a few seats to silence the liberal judges and those who may not judge as he wishes.

 

[Watchmen]

-Some people with penises prefer being treated like women. Some people with vaginas like being treated like men.

-Groups that have been beaten down sometimes need help getting back up.

No doubt. But the Left and the woke movement has gone off the deep end and need to self-correct.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've seen studies showing autistics who disclose that during a job interview are far more likely to get hired. Yes, it's a DEI hire for a quota and tax break hire, but otherwise autistics are massively un-and-under employed.
Affirmative action has also helped women get much further than before.
It shows how much thought goes into the issue when it's dismissed as "race quotas." That mentality is really bad in Indiana, and it's overwhelmingly white men, many with serious issues for a company (like alcohol use and violent anger), who ***** about it. Didn't get hired just because you aren't a woman or black? You sure it wasn't due to things like punching out a customer?

You might be unaware that Affirmative Action
has included strict prohibition against hiring
white males at times, eg, FoMoCo. Nothing
to do with punching out a customer.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I hope they do.

At this point I'm not hopeful. They're too nice and won't even flex a muscle to undue some advantages Reps have gave themselves.
Like the Supreme Court. There's no reason Biden shouldn't have tweaked it to undue the American Taliban Conservative majority on it and make it difficult for his predecessors to undue it. The number isn't set in stone, it has been changed before. Thompson even escaped his brazen hypocrisy and unethical practices unscathed.
Don't be surprised if Trump tries to add a few seats to silence the liberal judges.

 

[Revoltingest]

I hope they do.

Nah. They need strong candidates who
don't push stupid schemes like price
controls. And acquiescing to Israel's
genocide of Palestinians.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No doubt. But the Left and the woke movement has gone off the deep end and need to self-correct.

That would actually be those who think tarrifs lower prices and voted for a man who made it clear his intention is to install people loyal to him rather than the constitution. It's those who believe less than half the popular vote is a landslide and mandate.

 

[F1fan]

At this point I'm not hopeful. They're too nice and won't even flex a muscle to undue some advantages Reps have gave themselves.

Democrats still treat politics as an honor ystem. They are unprepared to deal with MAGAs who are corrupt to this depth. Even Nixon obeyed the SCOTUS and turned over his private recordings, and that led to his resignation. Can you see any MAGA doing that?

Like the Supreme Court. There's no reason Biden shouldn't have tweaked it to undue the American Taliban Conservative majority on it and make it difficult for his predecessors to undue it. The number isn't set in stone, it has been changed before. Thompson even escaped his brazen hypocrisy and unethical practices unscathed.

It's as if Democrats are worried about losing an election. Oh wait ....

Don't be surprised if Trump tries to add a few seats to silence the liberal judges and those who may not judge as he wishes.

I'll be amazed if the mentally disturbed president elect will be able to figure out how to do it. He's appointing the most inept set of players. They will probably be too busy fighting with themselves to do any damage to America institutions. One thing for sure, they will find ways to drain the US treasury of money.

 

[Argentbear]

You might be unaware that Affirmative Action
has included strict prohibition against hiring
white males at times, eg, FoMoCo. Nothing
to do with punching out a customer.

Of the 90,000+ employment discrimination cases before the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, less than 3% percent are discrimination cases against white men and a majority of those were ruled to be "without merit."

 

[Copernicus]

You might be unaware that Affirmative Action
has included strict prohibition against hiring
white males at times, eg, FoMoCo. Nothing
to do with punching out a customer.

I have never heard of this, and it would go against how Affirmative Action normally works--to prevent companies from discriminating against minorities in their hiring practices. Can you provide a source for this? I know that Ford Motor has joined some other companies in scaling back diversity training, and they have pledged not to use hiring quotas. However, Affirmative Action does not mandate any hiring quotas, only that companies take steps to identify discriminatory hiring practices. Diversity training is not usually mandatory unless a company adopts such a program because of past discriminatory practices that have been uncovered.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Democrats still treat politics as an honor ystem. They are unprepared to deal with MAGAs who are corrupt to this depth. Even Nixon obeyed the SCOTUS and turned over his private recordings, and that led to his resignation. Can you see any MAGA doing that?

Yeah. For years now the Dems have stood by and done nothing to fight fire with fire as the Reps have went further and further right, dragging the country and even the Dems along with them.
Amd Nixon epitomizes a mixed bag of results to both wonderful and harrowing ends, but, yes, he honored the system and put himself beneath American Democracy for the good of the country, a goal of many Presidents since Day One of the Constitutional America. Trump will never do that because he's a fascist and only capable of thinking about himself and what benefits him. Amd MAGA won't even read a newspaper to see and acknowledge their Dominionist, hate filled agenda is not what got Trump elected. It was Americans who see the inflation and are so under informed they don't understand or know our currency is fiat and backed by nothing tangible (real example I met).

 

[Revoltingest]

Of the 90,000+ employment discrimination cases before the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, less than 3% percent are discrimination cases against white men and a majority of those were ruled to be "without merit."

Nonetheless, I've seen & been subjected to it.
And I'll wager that like me, most never bothered
to file a complaint. It would be ignored.
Race & gender based discrimination that serves
a left wing hive isn't better than serving another.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have never heard of this, and it would go against how Affirmative Action normally works--to prevent companies from discriminating against minorities in their hiring practices.

Perhaps you're too young to know
of how it worked in the 70s & 80s.

Can you provide a source for this?

Not for things I remember, eg, being told by
Gary Koch, who ran the Phoenix Memorial
Reactor at U of Mich that he was under orders
to hire only blacks & women. This was one of
many such things that weren't newsworthy.
They happened nonetheless.

I know that Ford Motor has joined some other companies in scaling back diversity training, and they have pledged not to use hiring quotas. However, Affirmative Action does not mandate any hiring quotas, only that companies take steps to identify discriminatory hiring practices. Diversity training is not usually mandatory unless a company adopts such a program because of past discriminatory practices that have been uncovered.

There were of course reasons
for Affirmative Action.

 

[Copernicus]

Perhaps you're too young to know
of how it worked in the 70s & 80s.

I am Donald Trump's age--actually, a few months older--and I lived in NYC in the 70s and 80s. I followed his racist antics in the news back then.

Not for things I remember, eg, being told by
Gary Koch, who ran the Phoenix Memorial
Reactor at U of Mich that he was under orders
to hire only blacks & women. This was one of
many such things that weren't newsworthy.
They happened nonetheless.

I have no knowledge of this, but it is your anecdote. I never heard of a case where Affirmative Action imposed quotas on hiring, but redlining and discrimination in the real estate business was rampant back then. For example, the Trumps were caught redhanded engaging in discriminatory practices. When I went looking to buy a house, I was told which neighborhoods were integrated by one agent, although she claimed that she wasn't supposed to give out that information. (We were actually looking for a stable integrated neighborhood, although she thought we wished to avoid them.) There were a lot of myths floating around about how the law worked, so some businesses may have imposed such quotas.

There were of course reasons
for Affirmative Action.

Absolutely. I lived through those times, and I grew up in very segregated white neighborhoods. I got a good heavy dose of racist mythology during my childhood.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am Donald Trump's age--actually, a few months older--and I lived in NYC in the 70s and 80s. I followed his racist antics in the news back then.

This just shows who was more
engaged with industry...& U of Mich.

I have no knowledge of this, but it is your anecdote.

That's "anecdotes", bub.

I never heard of a case where Affirmative Action imposed quotas on hiring, but redlining and discrimination in the real estate business was rampant back then. For example, the Trumps were caught redhanded engaging in discriminatory practices. When I went looking to buy a house, I was told which neighborhoods were integrated by one agent, although she claimed that she wasn't supposed to give out that information. (We were actually looking for a stable integrated neighborhood, although she thought we wished to avoid them.) There were a lot of myths floating around about how the law worked, so some businesses may have imposed such quotas.

I don't dispute the existence of discrimination against minorities & women.
But it also existed against whites, males, & Asians (in education).
Remember California v Bakke?

Absolutely. I lived through those times, and I grew up in very segregated white neighborhoods. I got a good heavy dose of racist mythology during my childhood.

BTW, Affirmative Action in real estate transactions
has always been strictly illegal here in MI. Fair
Housing laws reign supreme.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'll be amazed if the mentally disturbed president elect will be able to figure out how to do it. He's appointing the most inept set of players. They will probably be too busy fighting with themselves to do any damage to America institutions. One thing for sure, they will find ways to drain the US treasury of money.

I watched Death Race 2000 last night. It was disturbing hearing that fictional President blaming the French for destroying our economy.
Trump is gonna wreck ours. No doubt woke, immigrants, LGBT and their radical socialist left boogeyman are gonna get blamed for it rather than a court that would be beter ran by jesters.

 

[F1fan]

I watched Death Race 2000 last night. It was disturbing hearing that fictional President blaming the French for destroying our economy.
Trump is gonna wreck ours. No doubt woke, immigrants, LGBT and their radical socialist left boogeyman are gonna get blamed for it rather than a court that would be beter ran by jesters.

Life in America will be pretty much be every man for himself. Whatever you have to do to protect yourself, do it. States will do what they can to maintain norms and stability, but the federal government is going to be catastrophic. In a way I envy the poorly informed.

 

[Copernicus]

This just shows who was more
engaged with industry...& U of Mich.

I really wanted to get into U of M but had to settle for Ohio State. It turned out to be the better option, since I ultimately landed my first job as an assistant prof at Columbia U in NYC. Then I ended up working in R&D for Boeing. So, plenty of experience in both academia and industry.

I don't dispute the existence of discrimination against minorities & women.
But it also existed against whites, males, & Asians (in education).
Remember California v Bakke?

Of course, but that kind of discrimination was miniscule in comparison to what was experienced by African Americans, Latino/Hispanics, and women generally. There are too many of those to list. I'm not trying to argue that any racial or gender discrimination is justifiable, but I do think that white males have less of a case to make in that department. Bakke made such a splash in the news, because it was about discrimination against a white male. Other types of discrimination were too common to make headlines.

BTW, Affirmative Action in real estate transactions
has always been strictly illegal here in MI. Fair
Housing laws reign supreme.

Ditto for New York, but my experience was that the law was never much of a barrier to what actually went on. Not in New York, anyway. People in the business just became more discreet about it.

 

[Revoltingest]

I really wanted to get into U of M but had to settle for Ohio State.

I've heard it's an OK place for those who can't get into college.
(Ever heard that joke before?)

It turned out to be the better option, since I ultimately landed my first job as an assistant prof at Columbia U in NYC. Then I ended up working in R&D for Boeing. So, plenty of experience in both academia and industry.

I knew many engineers (job shoppers) who worked
for Boeing in WA, making regular trips from WA to
So Cal's various aircraft companies.
BTW, when I started at Northrop in 76, I was the only
new hire in flight controls who was white & male.
(Northrop was in a highly political environment, &
had a tough time getting US government work.)

Of course, but that kind of discrimination was miniscule in comparison to what was experienced by African Americans, Latino/Hispanics, and women generally.

"Miniscule" describes the group politics view,
ie, the broad statistical numbers. But on an
individual level, the effects of discrimination
can be enormous.

There are too many of those to list. I'm not trying to argue that any racial or gender discrimination is justifiable, but I do think that white males have less of a case to make in that department.

You & I appear to have different perspectives
on the same situations, ie, recognizing discrimination,
but viewing it from larger statistics vs individuals.

Bakke made such a splash in the news, because it was about discrimination against a white male. Other types of discrimination were too common to make headlines.

And most of us simply coped, without
ever involving the courts.

Ditto for New York, but my experience was that the law was never much of a barrier to what actually went on. Not in New York, anyway. People in the business just became more discreet about it.

In MI, the state even told us (licensed brokers)
that it was illegal to have any record of race,
including a copy of their driver license.
I was willing to violate that because tenants often
lost wallets & keys. They needed us to let them in
their apartment/house. For tenant security, we always
verified their identity & legal right to enter the unit.

Another problem....
Local zoning laws conflicted with Fair Housing Laws
sometimes (occupancy limits & definitions of "family
relationship"). I treated the latter as governing law.
Fortunately, I never had to fight that in court.

 

[Copernicus]

You & I appear to have different perspectives
on the same situations, ie, recognizing discrimination,
but viewing it from larger statistics vs individuals.

I only asked for you to back up your claim about Affirmative Action: "You might be unaware that Affirmative Action has included strict prohibition against hiring white males at times, eg, FoMoCo." AFAICT, you are not able to do that except to cite personal experiences. IMO, such a prohibition imposed by a business would likely never have withstood a legal test. It is blatantly unconstitutional. Nevertheless, I have also encountered the attitude (primarily from white males) that Affirmative Action forces businesses to discriminate against white males. It is not inconceivable that management in some businesses take the cynical attitude that they have to impose quotas to comply with the law, even though there is nothing in the law compelling them to do that. If you can find something published by a government agency to back up your claim of a strict prohibition, that would be closer to the kind of evidence I was looking for. Otherwise, it doesn't convince me that Affirmative Action is the problem here.

That you were the only white male new applicant at Northrop when you started your first job does not convince me that there was any strict prohibition there. After all, they did hire you. I suppose you felt a little like many black new applicants feel when they are the only black person hired for a job in their department.

I don't want to dismiss the other interesting comments that you've made, but I don't want to go further with a derail here.