Landslide? Trump Won With Only 1.6% Margin Among Voters

[Revoltingest]

I only asked for you to back up your claim about Affirmative Action: "You might be unaware that Affirmative Action has included strict prohibition against hiring white males at times, eg, FoMoCo." AFAICT, you are not able to do that except to cite personal experiences.

My claim was about personal experience.
I could name names, but that would
neither prove nor add anything.
It's just a discussion...not a debate wherein
I'll provide verification.

IMO, such a prohibition imposed by a business would likely never have withstood a legal test. It is blatantly unconstitutional. Nevertheless, I have also encountered the attitude (primarily from white males) that Affirmative Action forces businesses to discriminate against white males. It is not inconceivable that management in some businesses take the cynical attitude that they have to impose quotas to comply with the law, even though there is nothing in the law compelling them to do that. If you can find something published by a government agency to back up your claim of a strict prohibition, that would be closer to the kind of evidence I was looking for. Otherwise, it doesn't convince me that Affirmative Action is the problem here.

I don't want to dismiss the other interesting comments that you've made, but I don't want to go further with a derail here.

I won't justify anything I've experienced.
And I don't expect you to justify your
differing experience. Neither of us can.
I take your word for what you saw.

 

[Copernicus]

My claim was about personal experience. I could name names, but that would neither prove nor add anything. It's just a discussion...not a debate wherein I'll provide verification.

Fair enough. It's just that I felt your claim was too strong and too broad to go unchallenged.

 

[Revoltingest]

Fair enough. It's just that I felt your claim was too strong and too broad to go unchallenged.

I felt that your claim of never seeing any
such thing was highly unusual for one
who worked in both education & industry.

 

[Copernicus]

I felt that your claim of never seeing any such thing was highly unusual for one who worked in both education & industry.

If you have seen such a thing, let us know. After all, you did not even cite any personal knowledge of a strict prohibition against hiring white males under Affirmative Action rules in any business. I stand by my opinion that cases of real discrimination against white males is miniscule compared to real ones against people of color and women. That's why Affirmative Action exists.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you have seen such a thing, let us know. After all, you did not even cite any personal knowledge of a strict prohibition against hiring white males under Affirmative Action rules in any business. I stand by my opinion that cases of real discrimination against white males is miniscule compared to real ones against people of color and women. That's why Affirmative Action exists.

I spoke of some experiences & things seen in 70s & 80s.
They weren't in the news. There are no links to give you.
You'll believe or disbelieve as you will.

You seem to be justifying Affirmative Action. And to have
no concern for those discriminated against, so long as the
numbers are miniscule. I accept that this is your view.
I'm not so sanguine about it, even though there are benefits.

 

[Copernicus]

I spoke of some experiences & things seen in 70s & 80s. They weren't in the news. There are no links to give you. You'll believe or disbelieve as you will.

You seem to be justifying Affirmative Action. And to haven o concern for those discriminated against, so long as then umbers are miniscule. I accept that this is your view.I 'm not so sanguine about it, even though there are benefits.

Nothing I said should make you think that I have no concern for white males who have been genuinely discriminated against. I believe that affirmative action was a needed method for fighting discrimination against those who have been customarily discriminated against. I do not believe that it has resulted in significant discrimination against white males, but I am quite willing to be persuaded otherwise. Obviously, if there were no affirmative action, white males would get more jobs than they do now, but that's not because they are more qualified.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

but I do think that white males have less of a case to make in that department

There are some instancss where that won't necessarily be true. Poor, mentally ill, physically disabled and previously arrested white males, those deemed "white trash," are probably where the bulk majority lf legit cases against white men are. A Southern Accent is also something that gets discriminated against outside the South.
It is definitely there and it does nothing but trivialize and dismiss the struggles faced by certain demographs of white men to say it's miniscule when in some cases they too have suffered horribly.

 

[Copernicus]

There are some instancss where that won't necessarily be true. Poor, mentally ill, physically disabled and previously arrested white males, those deemed "white trash," are probably where the bulk majority lf legit cases against white men are. A Southern Accent is also something that gets discriminated against outside the South.
It is definitely there and it does nothing but trivialize and dismiss the struggles faced by certain demographs of white men to say it's miniscule when in some cases they too have suffered horribly.

I honestly don't think so. There are always going to be cases of individuals who suffer horribly and unjustly, no matter what policies a government uses to remediate unjust discrimination for a class of people. It seems to me that you are setting up perfection as your standard for having any solution at all to these kinds of problems. I wasn't trying to argue that affirmative action is the perfect solution to the discrimination problem, only that it is better than any proposed alternative--e.g. doing nothing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I honestly don't think so. There are always going to be cases of individuals who suffer horribly and unjustly, no matter what policies a government uses to remediate unjust discrimination for a class of people. It seems to me that you are setting up perfection as your standard for having any solution at all to these kinds of problems. I wasn't trying to argue that affirmative action is the perfect solution to the discrimination problem, only that it is better than any proposed alternative--e.g. doing nothing.

I'm saying you're dismissing and downplaying real struggles faced by white men.
Amd what's the proposed alternative? @Revoltingest stated non-discriminatory policies where he lives, and in California two elections ago the results were strongly against Affirmative Action in favor of keeping the state's already existing non-discrimination laws.

 

[AndrasWerking]

2.5 million more votes than Harris, get over it
What is the percentage of illegal aliens that have committed rape, murder, etc. against U.S. citizens? it has a human number too, tell their families why it isn't that much overall.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nothing I said should make you think that I have no concern for white males who have been genuinely discriminated against. I believe that affirmative action was a needed method for fighting discrimination against those who have been customarily discriminated against. I do not believe that it has resulted in significant discrimination against white males, but I am quite willing to be persuaded otherwise. Obviously, if there were no affirmative action, white males would get more jobs than they do now, but that's not because they are more qualified.

I'm not trying to persuade you against Affirmative Action.

 

[Revoltingest]

2.5 million more votes than Harris, get over it
What is the percentage of illegal aliens that have committed rape, murder, etc. against U.S. citizens?

If you ask because you don't know, then that takes the
wind from your sails when arguing that they commit
these crimes. If, let's say, they're no worse then the
general population, then it's not worsening things.

it has a human number too, tell their families why it isn't that much overall.

That comment is naught but mischief.
But you could tell them that Trump had Republicans
kill a bill to improve border security. Why? Because
passing it would've looked good for Biden.