LDS letter on same-sex marriage

[Theocan]

The goverment has always chosen "equality" over the freedom to enjoy religion in many many cases between homosexuals and religious insititutions.

Mormon Times - Marriage ruling likely to impinge on religious rights

[mod edit] Having someone else gain civil rights is no way invading on your enjoyment of religion.

Heaven forbid you can't wear offensive t-shirts displaying your hate for homosexuals, if that is in your religion, then obiviously your defying God.

 

[Magic Man]

If you two are going to use the bible as an argument you have to accept the fact that Homosexual activity is a Sin according to the Bible.

With that, you could not argue that the Bible protects homosexual marriages. so don't even try.

I was replying to 9-10th's was i not?

Yes, except that you said "you two". If you meant someone else by that, then I apologize, but since the quote from him was in response to me, I think it's a reasonable assumption that I was the second in that term.

 

[Magic Man]

Please see my above post.

So, you're going to take some unrelated problems and use them against same-sex marriages? How do those examples affect your enjoyment of your religion anyway? I can see how they would affect others' enjoyment, but I don't see how they directly affect you.

 

[Father Heathen]

Take your own advice.

This is my religious belief and i will do as i see fit to protect my family and our freedom to enjoy our religion,

Whaaaaaaaaaat. What is threatening your family? Nothing. What is threatening your freedom? Nothing. You are the one who's being a threat to freedom here.
Would it be okay if Mormonism was banned because someone else thinks it's a threat to their family, freedom and the ability of enjoy their religion? Please answer that question.

 

[madhatter85]

Whaaaaaaaaaat. What is threatening your family? Nothing. What is threatening your freedom? Nothing. You are the one who's being a threat to freedom here.
Would it be okay if Mormonism was banned because someone else thinks it's a threat to their family, freedom and the ability of enjoy their religion? Please answer that question.

....we would be forced to embrace homosexuality as normal and will be refused the privilege of religious enjoyment.

As for the mormonism thing, As far as i know that debate was settled in the 1800's :drool:.

 

[madhatter85]

So, you're going to take some unrelated problems and use them against same-sex marriages? How do those examples affect your enjoyment of your religion anyway? I can see how they would affect others' enjoyment, but I don't see how they directly affect you.

That is because you are not me. I could tell you every reason why, but then you would callme a "homophobe" and ridicule my reasons, (you all have done that already).

 

[madhatter85]

[mod edit] Having someone else gain civil rights is no way invading on your enjoyment of religion.

Heaven forbid you can't wear offensive t-shirts displaying your hate for homosexuals, if that is in your religion, then obiviously your defying God.

The t-shirts were not slanderous. otherwise there would not even be a case.

 

[idea]

Regardless, the bible is entirely irrelevant when it comes to state and federal laws. Your religious commandments and such only apply to those who actually believe in and follow them.

Here are the commandments:
12 Honour thy father and thy cmother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

so.... don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, these only apply to Christians?.... that's strange, I thought they wre pretty good ideas for everyone...

 

[Father Heathen]

....we would be forced to embrace homosexuality as normal and will be refused the privilege of religious enjoyment.

As for the mormonism thing, As far as i know that debate was settled in the 1800's :drool:.

You are not "forced to embrace" anything just by it being legal. And how in the hell are you being refused the privilege of religious enjoyment? Should we ban interracial marriage because it "refuses the privilege of religious enjoyment" of certain people's beliefs? As you're well aware there are many Christian denominations that dislike Mormonism and think it's immoral, so should we ban Mormonism because it refuses their religious enjoyment? What's fair is fair, right? I sure as hell don't embrace Mormonism as normal, but I don't think it should be illegal based solely on my personal beliefs. Why? because I respect your rights and freedom. But if you don't like freedom, why would you want to live in America? Think, kid. Think.

 

[Father Heathen]

Here are the commandments:
12Honour thy father and thy cmother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

so.... don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, these only apply to Christians?.... that's strange, I thought they wre pretty good ideas for everyone...

No, but they're pretty far from being original or exclusive to Christianity. It's common sense stuff and obviously not what I meant. Besides, the only "commandments" enforced by law are those against stealing and killing, as there are no fines for "coveting your neighbor's ox", eating shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, etc. We don't sell our daughters into slavery or stone people to death. So yes, the bible is irrelevant.

Come on now.

 

[McBell]

It is not a bold faced lie.

Yes it is.
And you can claim till your blue in the face otherwise and it will STILL be a bold faced lie.

Marriage is only between one man and one woman UNLESS the Lord decreed otherwise for a time. The doctrine of Plural wives was a limited practice and was used SOLEY for the bringing forth of more offspring unto the Lord.

[mod edit]
You cannot say ALWAYS then support it with an UNLESS and expect anyone not within your choir to to take you seriously.

 

[Magic Man]

....we would be forced to embrace homosexuality as normal and will be refused the privilege of religious enjoyment.

As for the mormonism thing, As far as i know that debate was settled in the 1800's :drool:.

No, you would be forced to allow people not even of your church to marry others of the same sex. These people, seeing as how they are not even members of your church, are people you almost definitely wouldn't even know or ever meet. You would still be able to claim that homosexuality is wrong, and they shouldn't be married. You just wouldn't be able to force that personal belief on anyone else anymore.

Yes, the Mormonism thing was settled a long time ago, and how did that work our for you? you miss the point. The point is that it's an analogy. It shows how hypocritical you're being. You would probably be one of the loudest objectors to Mormonism being banned, and yet you're doing the same thing to homosexuals.

That is because you are not me. I could tell you every reason why, but then you would callme a "homophobe" and ridicule my reasons, (you all have done that already).

In other words, you don't have a good reason? We're not ridiculing you. We are trying to show you the error of your actions. Remember, that's not the error of your beliefs. As I've said many times, you can believe what you want. I would just rather you learned not to force those beliefs on everyone.

There is no reason for it to affect you personally. Unless you are forced to participate in or perform a same-sex marriage, it does not affect you personally. That is not going to happen, so it's not going to affect you personally.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

***MOD ADVISORY***

Please be civil and stay on topic.

Thanks

 

[Autodidact]

Take your own advice.

This is my religious belief and i will do as i see fit to protect my family and our freedom to enjoy our religion, And allowing homosexual marriages to be sanctified by the governemet is one of a few steps that will lead to me not being able to fully enjoy my own religion. It's that simple.

Please explain specifically and in detail how someone else enjoying their life interferes with your ability to enjoy yours.

btw, your religion seriously interferes with my (lack of) religion. Please stop practicing it immediately.

 

[Autodidact]

The goverment has always chosen "equality" over the freedom to enjoy religion in many many cases between homosexuals and religious insititutions.

Mormon Times - Marriage ruling likely to impinge on religious rights

Did you notice that not one of the instances mentioned involved a church? Apparently the Mormon Times is a bunch of liars trying to scare you by making up scary lies.

 

[Autodidact]

....we would be forced to embrace homosexuality as normal and will be refused the privilege of religious enjoyment.

No, you wouldn't. You would no longer be forced to embrace homosexuality than you are now. You could continue to discriminate against gay people to your heart's content, and your own detriment.

As for the mormonism thing, As far as i know that debate was settled in the 1800's :drool:.

Are you familiar with the concept of a hypothetical question?

 

[Autodidact]

That is because you are not me. I could tell you every reason why, but then you would callme a "homophobe" and ridicule my reasons, (you all have done that already).

Oh, so you're a homophobe with ridiculous reasons. O.K., don't bother, we'll just take that as a given.

 

[Autodidact]

The t-shirts were not slanderous. otherwise there would not even be a case.

So you think it's important for high school students to have the right to wear offensive T-shirts?

 

[Autodidact]

Here are the commandments:
12Honour thy father and thy cmother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ***, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

so.... don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, these only apply to Christians?.... that's strange, I thought they wre pretty good ideas for everyone...

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 3 Do not have any other gods before me.

 

[idea]

Did you notice that not one of the instances mentioned involved a church? Apparently the Mormon Times is a bunch of liars trying to scare you by making up scary lies.

• A San Diego County fertility doctor was sued for refusing to perform artificial insemination for one partner of a lesbian couple for religious reasons. The doctor referred the patient to a colleague, promised there would be no extra cost and offered to care for her during her subsequent pregnancy. The case is now before the California Supreme Court, and justices seemed hostile to the doctor's defense during oral arguments last month.

• Catholic Charities in Boston and San Francisco ended adoption services altogether rather than be compelled by anti-discrimination laws to place children with same-sex couples. In the Boston case, Catholic Charities was prepared to refer same-sex couples seeking to adopt to other providers, but that was not sufficient.

• A Lutheran school in Riverside County, Calif., was sued in 2005 under California's Unruh Act (which forbids discrimination by businesses) for expelling two students who allegedly were having a lesbian relationship, in contravention of the religious views of the school. The case was thrown out in Superior Court in January, but the students have appealed.

• Public school officials in Poway, Calif., so far have successfully barred students from wearing T-shirts that register their opposition to homosexuality on campus. One lawsuit made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court before being dismissed (as moot, because the students had graduated), but another federal lawsuit is pending.

all of these instances "allowing same-sex couples to force religious individuals or organizations to act out of accord with their faith"

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“What if a church offers marriage counseling? Will they be able to say ‘No, we’re not going to help gay couples get along because it violates our religious principles to do so?

What about summer camps? Will they be able to insist that gay couples not serve as staff because they’re a bad example?”

What about boy scouts?

Gay and Lesbians are shutting down church charities, church support groups, church activities, church welfare organizations, shutting down everything church related that does not support them. It’s not just asking for freedom, they are asking for support… shutting down and destroying all organizations that refuse to support them.

Great article madhatter! fruballs!