LDS members should vote for McCain

[jonny]

I cannot speak for them but maybe, just maybe, some Christians respect the rights and liberty of others; the very things that define this nation and make it great?

The question is an interesting one. I base some of my beliefs on how the government should act on LDS scripture.

D&C 134

2. We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

So, which is more important - the protection of life or the free exercise of conscience? If it's a religious question, then I have to keep this scripture in mind.

9 We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.

 

[Father Heathen]

Seriously, the Mormons already tried the whole theocracy thing and it didn't work out so hot. I can't understand why any Mormon wouldn't be big on the separation of church and state. The "church" that would be running the "state" isn't exactly friendly to the Mormons.

Exactly. I've tried to raise this point before. Sure, the Mormons could support the other Christians in stomping out homosexuality, but once those Christians got that power, what's to stop them from turning on the "heretical" Mormons for their "false teachings" and in turn banning their faith?

 

[Kcnorwood]

[/b]

I know, and I believe that a two-parent, mother-and-father family is the best.
Start another thread if you want to debate this.

Again, do you think religious people - if they are true to their faith - would vote for McCain?

You posted this in the debate side of the fourm maybe you should ask a mod to move it. What makes you think that your right & everyone else is wrong?

 

[Father Heathen]

a human, that can think and see and hear and feel. has their own blood type, their own mind, their own heart etc. etc. A living feeling thinking human

Can you prove that it's conscious, sentient and self-aware by that time? Also, what about before it develops the ability to think and feel? Would an abortion be okay then?

 

[UnTheist]

I'm not pro life, but does that mean that we're allowed to kill unconscious patients, as well?

 

[jonny]

I'm not pro life, but does that mean that we're allowed to kill unconscious patients, as well?

The LDS Church actually put out an official statement when that stuff in Florida was going on and said that the life of a patient shouldn't be prolonged like they were trying to do.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm not pro life, but does that mean that we're allowed to kill unconscious patients, as well?

There is a difference between unconscious and non-conscious.

 

[silvermoon383]

Just do the right thing:

Vote for Kirk.

 

[FFH]

I don't think that is obvious at all. I think most of them could probably go either way.

Not given the issues Obama and Biden stand for, which are clearly against LDS beliefs.

The only candidate that votes on issues that are in line with LDS beliefs is Sarah Palin, even McCain is liberal on many issues, which are not in line with my LDS beliefs, so It puts me in a position where I can't vote for either candidate.

 

[Watchmen]

Not given the issues Obama and Biden stand for, which are clearly against LDS beliefs.

The only candidate that votes on issues that are in line with LDS beliefs is Sarah Palin, even McCain is liberal on many issues, which are not in line with my LDS beliefs, so It puts me in a position where I can't vote for either candidate.

That's outrageous.

There are plenty of wonderful LDS members who are liberal. Harry Reid the most notable. Thankfully, people like you are not in the temple recommend interview.

 

[pwsoldier]

Most private schools are religious.

The point of the vouchers is so anyone can go to any school - so a poor person can still go to a private school. Do you think it is right to force poor kids into public schools while rich kids have a choice of going wherever they want? so much for Obama sticking up for the rights of the downtrodden poor. Gov control over education is more important to him than the choice of poor kids for what school to go to.

As I said before, the government can scarely afford funding for public schools. It is for this reason that the public education system is so inefficient. I believe that ALL federal money for education should be given to the public schools. They need it.

again, you don't want poor kids to have the same opportunities as rich kids? You think the gov should control education of the poor? Only the rich don’t have to be brainwashed with gov education?

Brainwashed? I'm afraid I'm not following you here. Granted, public schools are grossly underfunded and often incompetent, but I'm not sure how that equates to brainwashing. The point I'm trying to make is that the money that is being given to private schools can be put to better use by raising the quality of public education to more acceptable levels.

sorry, LDS area not meant for debate, I'll see if I can move it over to gen debates...

Much appreciated.

The gov would be forcing me to do something against my relig beliefs by forcing me to pay taxes that would go towards funding abortions. Religious freedom would entail not forcing me to do something against my conscious.

Since when do abortion clinics receive federal funding? Also, I think Jonny and I have both pointed out that the Church is not unconditionally opposed to abortion. It allows for certain circumstances, which completely justifies the continued operation of abortion clinics in accordance to church policy.

Obama has horrible horrible friends - everyone says "don't judge him by his friends". Sorry, but birds of a feather flock together. I do and will continue to judge Obama by who his friends are.

McCain is a great guy, and he has great friends.

So you judge people by their friends, eh? How about their family members? Even their own children? Should we take the fact that Sarah Palin's daughter is pregnant to mean that Sarah Palin is a terrible mother who condones teenage promiscuity? Personally, I don't care about the actions of her daughter. What I want to know is whether or not you are willing to judge Palin by the actions of her daughter the same way you're judging Obama by the actions and statements of his pastor.

consider this scenario. Siamese twins joined at the waist or head or something – two people, two hearts, two minds, two sets of eyes etc… one body. Let’s say one of the Siamese twins does not want to be attached to this other person. Has very good reasons for not wanting to be attached. Unfortunately, a surgery to disconnect them will kill one of the people. Let’s say one of the Siamese twins takes her sister to court, testifies how much stress and emotional anguish it is for her, how she can’t live this way. Do you think it is OK to kill one sister because of the mental trauma she causes her twin? How would you vote in such a case?

What does this have to do with the Church's stance on abortion?

 

[Theocan]

Pro-choice is NOT pro-abortion, check your facts.

Maybe its easier to vote Republican than not to think at all.

 

[UnTheist]

I always wondered what people meant by pro-abortion. I assume it's suppose to describe people who encourage others to have abortions whenever possible?

If not, then why put such a stupid, insulting, and false title on pro-choice people?

 

[madhatter85]

I'm going to make this clear, I will be voting for McCain on the basis of issues that I deem are relevant in my life and the life of my children.

I don't completely agree with him on certain things, But as for the issues that will affect my family directly, he provides the best promises.

 

[Watchmen]

I'm going to make this clear, I will be voting for McCain on the basis of issues that I deem are relevant in my life and the life of my children.

I don't completely agree with him on certain things, But as for the issues that will affect my family directly, he provides the best promises.

I promise I'm not picking a fight. I'm just wondering what those issues are. Maybe we can trade notes on what we feel is important to life and family.

 

[idea]

Mccain said something I have been thinking about.

Long ago, something unusual happened to me that taught me the most valuable lesson of my life. I was blessed by misfortune. I mean that sincerely. I was blessed because I served in the company of heroes, and I witnessed a thousand acts of courage, compassion and love.

Blessed by misfortune.
What does it take to change us?
In a POW camp McCain was changed from
“selfish independence” and not thinking “there was a cause more important than me.”
to
“I was never the same again. I wasn’t my own man anymore. I was my country’s.”

I understand the type of change McCain was talking about – I had a different painful experience, but the same type of change…

Will it require a painful experience to change this country? If Obama is the painful experience needed to wake us up to taking personal responsibility for our self rather than being lazy and wanting the government to do everything for us... If this is what it takes, then so be it. I will suffer with my fellow citizens in hope that the experience will quickly change all of us.

It would sure be nice if we were able to gain understanding and change without the painful experience though.

McCain's speech link

 

[Kcnorwood]

I'm going to make this clear, I will be voting for McCain on the basis of issues that I deem are relevant in my life and the life of my children.

I don't completely agree with him on certain things, But as for the issues that will affect my family directly, he provides the best promises.

McCain is full of crap just like Obama is they will say anything to get elected. You should also be worried about your Childrens future.

 

[madhatter85]

McCain is full of crap just like Obama is they will say anything to get elected. You should also be worried about your Childrens future.

Republicans are for smaller government.

Democrats are for Bigger government.

Bigger government = more control and less freedoms

Smaller government = Less control and more freedoms.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Republicans are for smaller government.

Democrats are for Bigger government.

Bigger government = more control and less freedoms

Smaller government = Less control and more freedoms.

They both want control it's a power trip there is very little difference between the two parties.

 

[Watchmen]

Mccain said something I have been thinking about.

Long ago, something unusual happened to me that taught me the most valuable lesson of my life. I was blessed by misfortune. I mean that sincerely. I was blessed because I served in the company of heroes, and I witnessed a thousand acts of courage, compassion and love.

Blessed by misfortune.
What does it take to change us?
In a POW camp McCain was changed from
“selfish independence” and not thinking “there was a cause more important than me.”
to
“I was never the same again. I wasn’t my own man anymore. I was my country’s.”

I understand the type of change McCain was talking about – I had a different painful experience, but the same type of change…

Will it require a painful experience to change this country? If Obama is the painful experience needed to wake us up to taking personal responsibility for our self rather than being lazy and wanting the government to do everything for us... If this is what it takes, then so be it. I will suffer with my fellow citizens in hope that the experience will quickly change all of us.

It would sure be nice if we were able to gain understanding and change without the painful experience though.

McCain's speech link

The Bush Administration has been the painful experience. McCain will continue that experience if elected.